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Author Topic: NHexit.com discussion  (Read 15686 times)

Dave Ridley

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #180 on: August 05, 2016, 03:17 AM NHFT »

Ya I thought I saw an article in the Citizen and was trying to give them credit.
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Dave Ridley

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #181 on: August 05, 2016, 03:21 AM NHFT »

What if we were to approach some state reps with a request for a proposed constitutional amendment, reading:

"The people of New Hampshire have a right to self-determination through their elected representatives."

What problems do you see with the wording? I got this idea from a speech in the Basque lands, delivered by a Slovenian independence expert. I think she said Ljubljana put something similar through at the Republic (state) level around 1990, and that secession was a fringe movement until the year before it happened in 1991. Even their "clarifying" constitutional amendment affirming the right to self determination.... probably would not have been possible except for the near panic which followed Serbia's attempt to re-centralize Yugoslavia and move against Kosovo around 1989.
The benefit of my brainstorm would be that I think it's the only way to get something other than a candidate in front of all NH voters. It's also mildly worded with a popular sound to it, and I like the fact it imitates successful history. But I think it would require 66% of the votes cast, after passing all three branches...in order to enter the constitution. Then an independence bill would have to pass all three... or pass both houses by 2/3 each if vetoed.
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Dave Ridley

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #182 on: August 05, 2016, 02:55 PM NHFT »

I've just posted a demonstration event at

https://www.facebook.com/events/960538707390441/
But I accidentally set it as "private" so only those invited can see it.   Here's a copy:

"Aug 6  5:00 PM - 9:30 PM

Near London Bridge & Haverill Rd (111) Windham, NH

According to the link below, Trump will be at Windham High School tomorrow, Sat Aug 6, doors opening 6pm. It's pretty late to schedule a demonstration, and I'm not sure I can be there. But in accordance with the apparent #NHexit consensus that it's okay to schedule a demonstration you might not attend: Here I am doing so. Let's see how it works. If you go, you'll probably find something to do regardless. I've listed as the gathering point, an intersection about 1000 feet north of the school. https://www.donaldjtrump.com/schedule"

« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 03:33 PM NHFT by Dave Ridley »
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Russell Kanning

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #183 on: August 05, 2016, 10:20 PM NHFT »

I like it .... but I don't quite understand the wording
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Dave Ridley

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #184 on: August 06, 2016, 03:59 AM NHFT »

oh uh...what should I clarify?
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Dave Ridley

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #185 on: August 06, 2016, 09:20 AM NHFT »

If you go...maybe e-mail me or phone me with a report of what you saw.... even if I'm there I'll tend to circle it rather than stay in one spot.
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Free libertarian

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #186 on: August 06, 2016, 12:02 PM NHFT »

What if we were to approach some state reps with a request for a proposed constitutional amendment, reading:

"The people of New Hampshire have a right to self-determination through their elected representatives."

What problems do you see with the wording? I got this idea from a speech in the Basque lands, delivered by a Slovenian independence expert. I think she said Ljubljana put something similar through at the Republic (state) level around 1990, and that secession was a fringe movement until the year before it happened in 1991. Even their "clarifying" constitutional amendment affirming the right to self determination.... probably would not have been possible except for the near panic which followed Serbia's attempt to re-centralize Yugoslavia and move against Kosovo around 1989.
The benefit of my brainstorm would be that I think it's the only way to get something other than a candidate in front of all NH voters. It's also mildly worded with a popular sound to it, and I like the fact it imitates successful history. But I think it would require 66% of the votes cast, after passing all three branches...in order to enter the constitution. Then an independence bill would have to pass all three... or pass both houses by 2/3 each if vetoed.

"The people of NH have a right to self determination thru their elected representatives"

 I like what you are trying to say, but I have some concerns with how it will be interpreted.

 Some people would use this as a way of saying that the only way or proper "legal" way for self determination is thru a representative.  The oxymoronism be damned.

 In peripheral situations where NH laws or rights are being discussed, unrelated to secession, that proposed language could  be ratcheted into additional ways to rob people of freedom. 

In other words the wording could be used to further reduce rights to privileges and now "they" would have some magic words to point to as "proof" that rights must first be "approved .  More oxymoronism would then ensue.

I think Lysander Spooner said it well, when he said something about the constitution has either authorized such a government as we have or been powerless to stop it. 
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Russell Kanning

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #187 on: August 06, 2016, 10:37 PM NHFT »

agree
was Spooner the first to say that? hmmm

maybe take off the part about reps

I also just found it confusing.
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Mark D. Jacobsen

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #188 on: August 07, 2016, 01:07 AM NHFT »

Nice topic.
How about changing that slogan to:

"People of NH possess the right of self determination."
or
"NH = Self Determination"
The shorter and more concise the better.

The domain nhexit.com is unavailable.
nhexit.net and .org are available. I read most of the posts on this thread and I do not recall this being mentioned.
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Erroneous_Logic

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #189 on: August 07, 2016, 01:58 AM NHFT »

If you're looking to shorten stuff down to simple slogans, keep in mind that somewhat longer slogans are actually more effective, because they're more able to express strong emotion in a way that resonates with our stupid monkey brains.

15 minutes can save you 15 percent or more on car insurance.
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.
Melts in your mouth, not in your hands.
Strong enough for a man, but made for a woman.

I guarantee that everyone alive today in the U.S. will recognize at least two of those, if not more.

Here's a link talking about it.
http://adage.com/article/al-ries/long-slogans-absolutely-positively-effective-short/145755/
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Dave Ridley

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #190 on: August 07, 2016, 04:20 AM NHFT »

 Mark wrote:

'  "Nice topic.
How about changing that slogan to:

"People of NH possess the right of self determination."  '

 I think I like Mark's wording above perhaps... at least it is a concrete suggestion.   Ultimately we need a course of action which:

1) Gives all NH voters a chance to vote in some way on the question of NH independence.  But that would probably be too detailed and less likely to pass than mark's idea.     
2) Does not create new tools for killing freedom
3) Has wording that gives it a 20% chance of passage by the legislature within 10 years. (Federal abuses should gradually increase its performance each session...and as the Quebecois will tell you, just having a referendum is a victory).

This could be done through a referendum on the governor's election or through a constitutional amendment... I don't know any other way.   If we pushed through a California style initiative and referendum process for creating laws...that would also create a big tool for killing freedom. We probably don't want to do anything that makes "our" system more like California's.  Perhaps there could be a constitutional amendment that allows plebiscites on the issue of national independence for NH
« Last Edit: August 07, 2016, 04:23 AM NHFT by Dave Ridley »
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Dave Ridley

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #191 on: August 07, 2016, 04:35 AM NHFT »

I've downloaded 30 youtube lectures on slovenija/quebec/scotland independence, NH independence, federal practices and Brexit.  I'm listening to them 30 min. a day while I exercise ...I'm listening to you guys too....next on list will be audio files of the computer reading gandhi letters to me and copy-pastes of all the text at NHindependence.org

Guess I should listen to a computer-read of the NH constitution too.

Hardly anyone is showing up at the demonstrations I'm calling or even most of the ones I'm supporting.  Media attention is down to something approaching nill.  it's not encouraging.   but a division of labor is starting to fall into place, exit volunteers are actually doing stuff. We're at least as far along as slovenia was in 1988.   and maybe when I'm done I'll be world's reigning expert on the NH independence question :)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2016, 05:17 AM NHFT by Dave Ridley »
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Russell Kanning

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #192 on: August 07, 2016, 12:00 PM NHFT »

as far as I know the referendum or Proposition process in California has only curbed government .... the system there doesn't like it.
I don't think CA system is any worse than NH ... just bigger and more corrupt like the US one
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Russell Kanning

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #193 on: August 07, 2016, 12:02 PM NHFT »

btw NHexit.com is not available .... because Dave is already using it.
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Dave Ridley

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #194 on: August 07, 2016, 02:17 PM NHFT »

At this point I'm thinking of waiting until Nov. to approach state reps with a request for a bill/CACR/resolution.  My understanding is they can submit these in either Sept or Nov. So I don't know of a downside to waiting until Oct. before we (possibly) make such a request.   Waiting would reduce the chances that we submit something which doesn't really need to be submitted.  For example we might learn in Oct. that someone has already submitted a bill or what not....which we can throw our limited weight behind.  Though we might have thought about it for a long time, actually requesting any such thing should be looked at as a last resort . It should be postponed until necessary and avoided if practical, since it supposedly costs taxpayers a little bit.   Your thoughts on this plan of postponed action?

Russel I guess another downside to having initiative/referendum would be that getting one put in place would be a lot of work and steps which don't move directly toward independence.  But maybe you're right, I'm not sure.   Or I wonder if initiative/referendum could be inserted as a method of achieving *only* independence.   
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