NHexit.com discussion

[Free libertarian]

There can be another more obtainable  goal then 51%.

People can begin to want to be left alone. To consider other ways of living their lives. To see that there are others that support change.

Exactly.  Leave others alone.

Political gains require 51%  of people to agree how the plunder will happen and be divided, while never questioning the idea that plunder itself might be best if left to Pirate stories.

[Erroneous_Logic]

Something to think about that was just brought up on facebook is that, obviously, after a secession, there may be issues tied to the collection of social security. Regardless of the factual nature of that, -eventually- there would be a generation of old people who aren't eligible for it any more. There will have to be some talk and community outreach regarding the care of the elderly, especially those who become disabled in some way that restricts their ability to work.
Obviously, the answer to that is 'pay into some kind of private retirement plan while you're young', but that won't be nearly as helpful for people currently in their 40's and 50's, and will be completely undoable for people who are already living off of their SS payments.

[Russell Kanning]

Panarchy is a concept that many people haven't heard of, so when I hear talk of "solutions", from "normal people" the solutions often never consider panarchy.   I sometimes bring it up in my discussions with people, but frankly it's hard to have discussions with some people if they still believe in the existing paradigm as a necessary constant.

so true
some can't think outside that programming

[Russell Kanning]

I don't know why that keeps coming up .... you can get SS in other countries .... or just move back in with Big Brother

[Erroneous_Logic]

I don't know why that keeps coming up .... you can get SS in other countries .... or just move back in with Big Brother

Sure, but those other countries are rarely freshly seceded from the U.S.
And even if the U.S. decides that it's totally fine to send money out of the most over extended fund in the budget to those ingrates who don't even want it, those dirty rebel secessionists, that's an after the fact thing. I'm talking about -before- the fact, when people are going to stand up and say:

"Now, I'm no friend of the federal government, but you know, there are a FEW things that they do that actually -help- people! For instance, my grandparents are both living off of social security right now, and my dad's looking to retire in a few years. And what's going to happen when that gets cut off? Our grandparents and soon our parents are just left twisting in the wind! I'll help them out, of course, but there's only so much I can do, and coming up with a few thousand dollars extra every month isn't realistic! So, maybe some of you guys are ok with just letting your parents starve in the streets <bla bla bla appeal to emotion, scare tactics, I want my kids to know their grandparents etc>"

Facts will be nice, but appeals to emotion are powerful, which is why everyone always uses them. If there's some kind of social movement or network of people taking time to help retired people with stuff, some kind of charity, etc, that would go a long way towards reassuring people. In actual fact, it's unnecessary, but the key in -actually- seceding is to win support, not arguments.

[Russell Kanning]

I don't think those that need the government to survive will support us.

[blackie]

It seems like most of the people talking about NH seceding aren't from the New England area. They don't seem to understand, or ignore, the relationship between the New England states.

[Free libertarian]

While we're talking about things that could potentially happen or need consideration if NH seceded,  I'll play devils advocate for a moment.

What happens if NH becomes more authoritarian than it already is? 

[Russell Kanning]

almost by definition ... that can't happen

[Russell Kanning]

It seems like most of the people talking about NH seceding aren't from the New England area. They don't seem to understand, or ignore, the relationship between the New England states.

a few years ago I asked almost every candidate about secession at a CNHT picnic. There was about 500 people there and I asked about 40 what their ideas were. All of them ..... except for about 4 Free Staters .... were for it. Only 1 had to hesitate (that old gun guy from Concord), but he gave me a long statement about it.
Most of these people had lived in NH for 20 years or so at least. The new comers thought I was trying to get them in trouble or something.
These were almost all Republicans.

[Russell Kanning]

how would you guys vote?
or what is your preference?

[Free libertarian]

If I could weasel a "free pony" out of NH, I'd give some consideration to this vote. 

[Erroneous_Logic]

It seems like most of the people talking about NH seceding aren't from the New England area. They don't seem to understand, or ignore, the relationship between the New England states.

a few years ago I asked almost every candidate about secession at a CNHT picnic. There was about 500 people there and I asked about 40 what their ideas were. All of them ..... except for about 4 Free Staters .... were for it. Only 1 had to hesitate (that old gun guy from Concord), but he gave me a long statement about it.
Most of these people had lived in NH for 20 years or so at least. The new comers thought I was trying to get them in trouble or something.
These were almost all Republicans.

See? That you can so casually say stuff like that makes me really really really really want to move there as soon as possible

[Russell Kanning]

Well that might be true other places as well.
This was at the Coalition New Hampshire Taxpayers .... so not exactly the crowd that wants more government.
But it was 100% of those I asked, on the record, who were running that summer.
I had one say he wanted "no comment", but when I told him I would just write down what he said ... or he could answer a different question .... he gave me a "let's leave the US" statement.
Dave Ridley will be able to replicate these results as he discusses NHexit with people.

almost all of the freestaters declined to answer or said "of course I would prefer it if NH was separate."

[Russell Kanning]

If I could weasel a "free pony" out of NH, I'd give some consideration to this vote.

yea to me
it is about changing people's minds about these kinds of issues like you FLib.
maybe the push with NHexit will be for some vote someday .... in the meantime we can push the whole idea.