How to fight taxing and spending?

[lildog]

I?m not sure if everyone saw the editorial in this Sunday?s telegraph but it was an excellent sum up of why we have tax problems.  No one wants to say no to anything.

There was also a graph (not available in the online version) showing each town and how their taxes have increased over I believe the past 5 years.  Merrimack is the worst with a 61% increase.  Derry was the only other town even close to what we?re seeing.

One citizen posted the article on the town forum, which of course dragged the tax and spenders out.  They immediately discredited the article as being inaccurate and stated that the tax increases were due to factors ?out of our control? such as cutting of state school funding or ?unfunded mandates? etc.  Yet other towns seem to be able to control these things? why can?t Merrimack?

When I questioned this, the finger was turned right back at me saying I?m on the budget committee, why aren?t I suggesting anything (this of course ignores that I?ve made more cut recommendations then the entire rest of the budget committee put together? they almost all failed of course).  So I responded back that we need to compare ourselves to these other towns able to control their tax rates much better then Merrimack can? and I gave a number of examples.  Things like looking at why we have 4 school psychologists when other towns our size have 2 or why we keep our transfer station open 4 week days when if you ever go there during the week it?s like a ghost town.

What do I hear back as the counter argument???? Elementary kids are trying to commit suicide and the transfer station IS busy during the week, we sometimes get 3 or 4 cars at a time (the station handles 20+ cars at a time on Saturdays).

One other budget committee member, in just trying to cut the average amount of unspent budgeted funds from the past 10 years got the argument back that we?d end up having to do without police and fire.

How do you even combat this?  Is Merrimack doomed?  Is it gone beyond all hope like MA?

[FSPinNY]

I wonder where we could find reinforcements??? 

[GT]

How do you even combat this?  Is Merrimack doomed?

If you figure it out let me know. We have the same problem here in Londonderry. Most people don't even bother showing up to town meetings anymore....

[lildog]

Most people don't even bother showing up to town meetings anymore....

And that?s part of the problem of why we continue to be stepped on by the tax and spenders.  No one questions them.  Others do and get attacked for it, which discourages others from standing up.

Part of the solution I think is to ask questions? unfortunately I don?t always know which questions to ask.

[Russell Kanning]

Stop paying taxes. If you keep on paying, they will keep on raising the tax rates.

[KBCraig]

Most people don't even bother showing up to town meetings anymore....

And that?s part of the problem of why we continue to be stepped on by the tax and spenders.  No one questions them.  Others do and get attacked for it, which discourages others from standing up.

Reference the bad poetry in the Keene Sentinel: when the writer complains about 30 Free Staters wanting to take over and change everything by slashing the budget, what he's really complaining about is anyone getting involved in the process who isn't looking for more and "better" ways to tax and spend (or even better, beg from the state or feds, then spend).

I'm reminded of the old joke about the preacher who has "quit preachin' and gone to meddlin'!"

Kevin

[lildog]

Stop paying taxes. If you keep on paying, they will keep on raising the tax rates.

If I did that they'd take my house, then I'd be out far more then the $8,000+ I pay in taxes to the town.

[tracysaboe]

If their was a significant and dispersed minority of people who openly and vocally refused to pay taxes (even 10% or less) They wouldn't have any choice but to lower them, because the rest of the population would folow suit. But untill that happens, it's risky. I can understand if lil-dog doesn't want to take the chance that his house will be stolen.

I've facing a simular dilema right now. I've just realized I owe about $1,800 to the Federal Maffia. Do I just not file and hope they don't notice, (But they probably will because of past history, etc.) and risk penalties, interest and them confistating my house etc in a few years? (Of course, I'll be moving to NH in a few years so maybe they won't find me.) Or do I just pay it, get my debts all paid off and move to NH and live on $1,300/month so I don't need to owe anything to them ever again.

( you see, my goal is to sell my house here, after it's paid off, purchase a plot of land in NH, and build a passive solar house there -- preferably underground. If you build a house properly to take advantage of the climate, you actually don't need to pay for energy to heat your home. -- Invest about $10,000 in solar cells (probably closer to $1,000 by then actually at the rate current nano-tech and solar cell technology is evolving) so I can live off grid in regards to electricity too and leave the local government monopoly. Currently I'd still prefer to live on-grid in regards to water --. The point is, after all my debts are paid off, we could live quite comfortably on $500/month. Take out the need to pay for gas and electricity, and our ability to live comfortably goes down to needing about $300/month)

The point is, do I just deal w/ it, and submit for another comple years, so I can make sure that I'll ACTUALLY be free when I get to NH, or do I simply not pay them now, and hope that by the time they come around to get me, I'm in NH, and hope that when they do there will be tax protestors on the jury, and a whole network of people supporting me, and HOPE that I don't get handcuffed and taken off.  I mean, I really won't be much help for you people if I get tossed in jail soon after I get their, or if I need to live out from under the raidar the entire time.

Resisting property taxes imposed by the local government is one thing. People can stand infront of the property and help me defend it. Federal agents w/ guns from the IRS and DOJ are a completely different story.

Anyway,

Tracy

[Russell Kanning]

Stop paying taxes. If you keep on paying, they will keep on raising the tax rates.

If I did that they'd take my house, then I'd be out far more then the $8,000+ I pay in taxes to the town.

Well I hope the chains are not too heavy for you.

[aries]

If members of the FSP or other NH libertarian groups would consider themselves more of a union, like a workers union, we could organize stuff like this, tax "strikes," other civil disobedient acts all done in harmony, so we could do the maximum tying up of authority/cost to state..

Something to dig on..

[Russell Kanning]

It is already happening. Would you like to join us?

[lildog]

See I don?t agree with the whole concept of just stop paying taxes? there are SOME government services we do require.  I consider myself a constitutionalist on this aspect in that I do believe it is the government job to provide protection to some degree (now we all know it can never be expected that they would be there 100% of the time to protect us which is why we also have the ability to protect ourselves with gun ownership but that?s a different issue).

But getting back to the point, failing to pay taxes outright doesn?t address the problem.  Merrimack right now has portions of it?s population playing this same game.  Two years ago we increase the exemption for military persons, last year we increased the exemptions for elderly and now this year the town will vote to increase the exemptions for handicapped.  All this does is shift the tax burn around increasing it on other portions of the populations.  This isn?t going to fix anything, its only going to increase the tax burned on eventually just a minority of the population.  And once it?s only a minority getting screwed over, they no longer have the ability to fight back.  A MAJORITY demanding lower taxes has a lot more power behind it.

The other problem is people aren?t educated enough about where their money is actually going? they cry that taxes are too high but then they have government officials turning around and saying things like it?s required by law, or we have no places left to cut or whatever but never the less giving BS argument back to the people? most just accept that and hand over their paychecks.

What I?m trying to do in Merrimack is educate people as to what can be cut.  For instance the web site expense, which we found out would have been $150,000 to $200,000 opened some eyes.  People had a fit over that and the government now is looking to the people for ways to update the website.  Prior to my raising a stink, it was a done deal as we had to market the town? slowly but surly the FULL costs surfaced and more and more members of the public grew upset.  If people see that the government is doing all it can or they see wasteful spending they get upset and force change.  The problem is make sure people find out about things like that as government of course wont disclose it.  And putting on your own little private protest of failing to pay your tax bill isn?t going to educate more people and get them behind you either.  Most people see someone failing to pay their taxes and they either see that person as a unsuccessful bum or they see them as some antigovernment nut.  They don?t see you as a revolutionary who inspires them to get behind your cause.

[Russell Kanning]

I don't require any government services. Are you saying you want to force some of them on me?

I don't mind you having a government (or services) as long as people are free to opt out of it (or them).

If you don't have any ability to say "no" to a government, then you are left to beg to keep it in check. In NH we have held the government in check better than other locations, but it is slowly bleeding people dry.

You asked how to fight taxing and spending and I am answering to the best of my ability.

[Dreepa]

What about the roads?

[president]

What about the roads?

He can just steal the services he needs