Stateless in Somalia, and Loving It

[tracysaboe]

http://www.mises.org/story/2066

"Despite the seeming anarchy, Somalia's service sector has managed to survive and grow. Telecommunication firms provide wireless services in most major cities and offer the lowest international call rates on the continent. In the absence of a formal banking sector, money exchange services have sprouted throughout the country, handling between $500 million and $1 billion in remittances annually. Mogadishu's main market offers a variety of goods from food to the newest electronic gadgets. Hotels continue to operate, and militias provide security."
---The CIA Fact Book


Tracy

[JonM]

A veritable paradise, to be sure.

NAIROBI, 21 February (IRIN) - Thousands of people have fled the northern and northeastern suburbs of the Somali capital, Mogadishu, since clashes between militia groups started over the weekend, a top city official said.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/bf1a15cdd507353466d952e800a0169e.htm

[tracysaboe]

Nobody said it was a paradise. Good grief.

The only thing the author is saying is that imposing government would only increase the violence and cause more problems.

Tracy

[Fluff and Stuff]

A veritable paradise, to be sure.

NAIROBI, 21 February (IRIN) - Thousands of people have fled the northern and northeastern suburbs of the Somali capital, Mogadishu, since clashes between militia groups started over the weekend, a top city official said.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/bf1a15cdd507353466d952e800a0169e.htm

Those darm religious fanatics and power fanatics don't seem to get a long.

[JonM]

Nobody said it was a paradise. Good grief.

The only thing the author is saying is that imposing government would only increase the violence and cause more problems.

Tracy

And current events suggest that may not be the case, as that article is dated today. 

[tracysaboe]

You would want to go back to centralized government and civil war?

Did you even read it?
http://www.mises.org/story/2066

The author if the book this person's reviewing has lived their for the past 15 years, and sees the warlords as a response to U.N. attempts to impose government. They want to make sure that IF government is imposed they're got some control over it. Much of the war-lord violence would minamize if the U.N. would quit trying to force central government on the country.

Yes. People perhaps fled that region. But people would be fleeing the entire contry w/ centralized government as everybody violently fought to be in control of it.

TRacy

[JonM]

I just contend that most people aren't "Loving It"

[Caleb]

But Jon you are overlooking the fact that local "warlords" have been supplied armaments by interested foreign governments. 

[JonM]

When you're being shot at, how concerned are you with who supplied the guns to the shooter?

[tracysaboe]

I just contend that most people aren't "Loving It"

Perhaps. If you read the article you'll find that that refers to the person who wrote the book that lives there.

Calib's point is that if other governments and the U.N weren't supplying guns things would be more peacefull. Hence even in "almost-Anarchy Somalia" government is still largely the cause of most of the problems.

Tracy

[Dave Ridley]

I think the general sense is that things have improved over the last 12 years in somalia, under an established anarchy, but they have improved slowly and with a fair amount of instability.   The cell phone thing gets a lot of attention because it is so successful but overall the recovery has not been so fast.
Certainly it is not the hellhole that it was right after the government cratered, and it does seem to make the case that a country with a tortured past can become more viable in the later stages of anarchy than it was in the immediate post-governmnet years. 

[tracysaboe]

I think the general sense is that things have improved over the last 12 years in somalia, under an established anarchy, but they have improved slowly and with a fair amount of instability.   The cell phone thing gets a lot of attention because it is so successful but overall the recovery has not been so fast.
Certainly it is not the hellhole that it was right after the government cratered, and it does seem to make the case that a country with a tortured past can become more viable in the later stages of anarchy than it was in the immediate post-governmnet years. 

You're always very eliquent Dada. That's exactly what I was trying to say. thank you.

Tracy

[Fluff and Stuff]

I think the general sense is that things have improved over the last 12 years in somalia, under an established anarchy, but they have improved slowly and with a fair amount of instability.   The cell phone thing gets a lot of attention because it is so successful but overall the recovery has not been so fast.
Certainly it is not the hellhole that it was right after the government cratered, and it does seem to make the case that a country with a tortured past can become more viable in the later stages of anarchy than it was in the immediate post-governmnet years. 

Most importantly, I think that Somalia shows that the freedom view of anarchy is much more likely to happen in a country like Somalia than the Marxist view of anarchy. 

Marx thought that after all freedom was eliminated via communism, anarchy would form it that everyone worked together because they wanted to.

[Russell Kanning]

The good thing about anarchy .... you can flee the country. You can't do that very well under tyrants.

[president]

The good thing about anarchy .... you can flee the country. You can't do that very well under tyrants.

Is someone forcing you to stay here  ???