Free Nation Project: Belize

[maxxoccupancy]

Most, if not all of, the freestaters that I've talked to mentioned a prior willingness to leave the country itself.  Simply moving to an American state was small compared to what many of us were considering.  With the way the national government is going, I think that staying in America might become impractical.  In fact, all of the major presidential candidates right now are supporting gun control.  None are strong, vocal supporters of the constitution.  All have been on the national stage talking about the dangers of terrorism and the need for more activist government.  This country could go downhill very quickly, and I don't think that a few hundred protestors talking about secession are going to change anything.

I have been looking through the Carribean and Central America for a potential Free Nation Project.  Nearly everything is either a territory or has a population over three million.  There is one exception, Belize.  It is a two day drive from SoCal or Texas, and the official language is English.  Per capita incomes are about $2900 a year,  making it a cheap tourist spot, and a cheap place to live.

Most importantly, it has a population of just 267,000 people, less than one fourth that of New Hampshire, and a lot of people have expressed stronger interest in a move there than staying/moving here.  Belize has a tropical climate and two major international airports.  It's close proximity to the Panama Canal, Gulf states, and its accessibility to Europe make it a potential haven for private investment and international trade.

We would have far more control over the trade, immigration, currency, and banking policies of a single country, rather than lobbying changes in state policies alone.  Just as important, of the people I have talked to outside of the FSP, most are hesitant to move to cold New England.  None has mentioned any reservations about retiring to a tropical paradise like Belize.

There are, of course, many other advantages to Belize.  Even in NH, the federal government forces a lot of searches and other invasive policies on us.  Even your mailbox officially belongs to the US Post Office.  Homeland Security can declare a national crisis and sieze everything in your safe deposit box.  The IRS can still go through your bank accounts without a warrant.  If we could change a national government in a small country, you would enjoy rights that just don't exist in America anymore.

I don't believe that Belize was ever examined when we considered the FSP.  The leadership gave us ten states and told us to vote for one.  There was talk about offering a warm secondary state later on, as an alternative for those unwilling to move to such a cold area.  I think that Belize ought to be considered seriously as a secondary project.  More importantly, if this country does go downhill quickly, we made need another country to live in.  For those not wanting to stay here during the winter, we could spend time in Belize getting things started there.  You wouldn't have to be confined to one.

I have asked people whether they would rather live here or Belize.  All have said Belize.  I am inclined to agree with them.

--Max

[Caleb]

Yes, I've thought about leaving the country, although I favor Honduras, perhaps because of my affection for the Spanish-speaking peoples.

That having been said, I think moving only postpones your demise.  Their goal is to set up worldwide dominion.  When they achieve that, you will be safe nowhere.  Your only option, the only hope of defeating their plan is to take on the most powerful nation on earth:  In other words, to support a strong secession movement and to try to crack at Fedgov where she is most vulnerable:  Her Constitution itself.  If a single state declares independence, I believe it will start a chain reaction that will bring about an end to the USA as a united government, effectively ending any plans in the near future for one world government.

Caleb

[Pat McCotter]

And the Chief in charge of the three "ship" Navy in Belize was in the US Coast Guard.

[KBCraig]

I hereby nominate Casa Gonzo as headquarters. If Jerry Jeff wasn't such a big ol' Democrat, I'd nominate him for minister of culture.

Kevin

[Russell Kanning]

I had thought of Belize before I got involved with the fsp. I like the idea of moving there and ignoring the government like the Mennonites that have been living there since 1955. They don't pay into the social systems and don't use the government schools. I think you could very free there, without changing the government.
I think you should move there Max.

[Dave Ridley]

I hope max will stay here!

But yes I can see some appeal to this idea even though I prefer a cold climate.
I think you're spot on , max, with regard to the idea of a second free state project focusing on a warm place.  But maybe there should be a vote between candidate nations/states?   that would give time for consultation with local residents, which was crucial in making the right decision in '03.

[Caleb]

If we declare independence, we'll have our free nation. 

[Russell Kanning]

Did we consult with WY residents before we voted in the FSP?

[JonM]

I think someone drove though, does that count?

[Russell Kanning]

We can have a trading partner in Belize so Dada can get his bananas.

[Russell Kanning]

I think someone drove though, does that count?

I was living there at the time......didn't seem like most people were interested in reality .... they like to get into details of laws or other such silliness.

[Russell Kanning]

I think Belize is the best choice for those that are fleeing the coming disaster that is the US. I have had to think about it alot. Since I figure that we are in a similar situation as pre wwII Germany, do I stay and oppose the evil or flee like so many decent people did as they saw the handwriting on the wall?

Kat and I have decided that the best thing we can do is stay and beat this beast. We can move mountains ...... besides they are small in NH.

[Fluff and Stuff]

I think someone drove though, does that count?

They may have talked to several leading state senators and the heads of various state groups.  Wyoming was pretty darn welcoming.  Only one reporter was overly negative during the whole trip.

Anyway, all of the Free Nation people that I have talked to have mentioned Costa Rica but the government is working hard to prevent more Americans from moving there.

I figure the best thing to do is live in NH and spend a couple of weeks every winter in a warm nation.

[maxxoccupancy]

Of course, I am not suggesting abandoning NH, but getting something started in Belize (or another state or country).  There's no reason that the secondary free state has to be another US state.  During the cold months, Belize is a nice place to visit.  Belize even has a new Retirement Law.  If you are over 45, and can put $1,000 US per month into a Belize bank account, you can move there, even getting around duties on cars, and taxes on personal income.  Following that law, you can't take one of their $3,000 a year jobs, but you can open up a business.

There are seafront lots for about $10-20,000 USD, and small houses can be bought for about $30-40K.  Larger homes on the beach can be bought for $200-300,000 and the cost of living is lower there, also.

You wouldn't really need to bring about much political change, there, because the government basically leaves you alone; but it would be nice to have lots of freestaters around in one place just in case the bag hit the fan here in the US.  Even having libertarians testifying seems to have accomplished more than voting people out of office, so far in NH.  Joining a community of Americans and Europeans already living in Belize, we could bring about political change on a municipal level easily, leaving open the possibility of national change if the national government caused too many headaches for people, there.

We could get politically active in Belize, and because the country has less than one fourth NH's population, a small number of activists could bring about big changes.  A national government also has control over banking privacy, drug policy, transportation issues, international trade, currency, immigration, etc...  In other words, if the Belizian gov't caused too many headaches for us, we could take over more easily (as an adjunct to the FSP) and build a little Hong Kong/Amsterdam/early America within a two day drive of the states.

Moreover, contrast the idea of setting up a small freestater retirement/vacation/business community in Belize with limited political ambitions to announcing to New Englanders that they are seceeding from the union.  The Washington Establishment would have a field day, using their new "Civil War" to justify turning America into the gestapo police state they would love.

A FNP could be accomplished in tandem to the FSP, whereas secession/Western FSP etc... tends to pull a lot of resources away from NH.  Belize (or something in the Carribean) would make for a much better secondary project than the statewide projects that we mentioned.

There are also some islands in the Carribean that have even smaller populations, but most are territories, are difficult to reach, and/or are lacking in 21st century amenities.

In other words, I suggest that we get the ball rolling on a secondary FSP (which has been discussed quite a bit), and that we include easily accessible countries in the vote.  Even four US Senators and four US Reps are not going to stop what's going on in DC.

I realize that I am not a great communicator of ideas, and people are making some comments responding to my posts by suggesting things that I did not even propose.  I am simply suggesting that we start the secondary project vote, and that we include other countries (the follow the same criteria) in the vote.

--Max

Didn't get to see that last post before I posted.  I wanted Belize as a kind of winter getaway for all FSPers, even those who can't/aren't making the move to NH.  We can find a small town their and just start working at it from there.  Natives are less likely to work against us if we have our own community their, and if our involvement in national politics is mainly limited to educating people and elected officials.  We do have a public policy brain trust amongst libertarians.

[Russell Kanning]

What do we care about senators and reps?