I am going to leave the USA

[CNHT]

I'm far less convinced at this point that there is some undiscovered utopia out there just waiting for expats to arrive.

Then of what value are you to the free state project?  You sound defeated.

Not defeated, just knows a good starting place...liberty should have no bounds and should be whereever you are.

If it is easy to get in to a place and / or cheap to become a citizen then you do not want to be there....like America is to Mexicans.

If I where a Mexican I would go to America too.  Being an American with assets to protect requires that I leave this place and head for where our senators/congresscritters have their estates....not in America!

This is a contradiction in terms. If it's cheap to get in? You were just bragging about the no taxes in Kitts......

[Mrs. Concious]

Ok you move to St K  and get citizenship and renounce the US cit. Ok
Are there jobs there?  You mentioned living in Europe... doing what?

You probably think I work via the internet....you would be right.

Jobs are for peasants on statists alike.

[Dreepa]

Jobs are for peasants on statists alike.

huh?

[CNHT]

This person is not for real...

Scott I told you, I am pretty sure I know who this person is and they are a nutcase...sorry folks but it's true. They do not even make sense.. You work for a living Scotty? Oh you must be a statist!!

[svillee]

Foolish abstractions? When I refer to patriotism, I am talking about those who can keep sight of why the country was founded in the first place: to escape tyranny and for freedom and liberty. Show me another country that has a constitution like ours, you can't.

Although I intend to stay in NH for the foreseeable future, I think Mrs. Conscious's plan is quite reasonable.  St. Kitts and Nevis is a truly remarkable country, because of two things: there is no personal income tax, and you can become a citizen there quickly.  As far as I know, it is the only country in the world with this combination.

The absence of an income tax is not a trivial point.  It's the income tax that allows the government to become way too big.  A country with no income tax will necessarily have a small government.  It literally can't afford to infringe on Mrs. Consious's liberty too much.

The idea of being a citizen of St. Kitts and Nevis, but a resident of another country is again very pragmatic.  She can decide her country of residence based on where is the most attractive place to live, maximizing her actual liberty, without concern for how hard it is to become a citizen.

I emphasize the phrase "actual liberty".  As Mrs. Conscious correctly points out, what matters is how free you actually are, not what the country's constitution says.  Every day we hear reports about how our government openly and brazenly violates the constitution.  It's just a piece of paper, no longer a reason to stay.

As for "why the country was founded in the first place: to escape tyranny and for freedom and liberty", I realize that's the conventional wisdom, but I don't think that's what is special about the US.  Here's a radical thought:  Almost everyone wants freedom and liberty.  Almost everyone wants to escape tyranny.  The founding fathers established a country of freedom not because they had some brilliant insight, but because they had the rare opportunity to do so.  They were in a region with lots of arable land in a temperate climate, and hardly any other people they had to share it with.  Even today, no other region on earth has this combination of arable land, temperate climate and low population density to the extent that the US does.  That is what is special about the US, in my view.

Anyway, I'm staying here in NH for now, because pragmatically it's my best option.  But I absolutely respect Mrs. Conscious's decision.

[Recumbent ReCycler]

I think that if I had sufficient wealth, I could have a good deal of liberty outside the US, but I wouldn't renounce my US citizenship.  If I had the money, I would go to my cabin on one of the Aland islands during the summer,http://www.osterholm.info/aland/ and come back to NH for the winter months.  I would build an earth sheltered home in NH, and another in Aland.  Since my cabin is on an island that has no government or electricity, I would make my own electricity with windmills and solar panels and rig a pump to the well so that I can have running water.  I would also get one of those satellite dishes that provide an internet connection.  I think I would keep the outhouse, but I would also install a septic tank so that I can have a regular toilet.  I would also build a workshop where I would have metalworking tools.  I could build whatever I want in it.  I just found out that the Finnish army is demilling and selling off a lot of their older machine gun parts.   This is only a dream right now, since I cannot afford that kind of endeavor yet.  There is mail service to the island, so I could sell some of the stuff that I make on http://www.bluebroker.com

[Mrs. Concious]

I know who this person is and I rather think they are leftists, looking for a 'free' country = handouts. There's a ton of welfare and poor people in those islands.

I have never know a statist that did not use the terms liberal and conservative to describe anyone who opposes them.  As if  the label of "liberal" or "conservative" ends the argument.  I challenge you to do better in your correspondence.


I am a classical liberal.  Do you know what that is?

Welfare/poor.....this describes the USA perfectly....your eyes truly are closed if this is not obvious to you.

Hech the USA is bankrupt as are most of the people in it

Treasury Dept. Moves to Avoid Debt Limit
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/06/AR2006030600635_pf.html

[JonM]

Again, Mrs. Concious.  Why are you still here?

[CNHT]

I am a classical liberal.  Do you know what that is?

Liberal is a liberal, as I said...there is no easy way out..my dear. Freedom is not free.

[CNHT]

Wait a minute...I was born in the states...I grew up in the states...I brought up my family in the states...I still live in states...Gee, I guess I AM a statist.  LOL!

And I have never known a liberal not to use the word statist.

[Caleb]

Conscious,

You seem to have a warped view of most of the people here.  From what I've read, it seems that you think that we all Love the good old USA, and that we want her security.

Can't speak for all of those on the forum, but most of us are smart enough to realize that there are places we could go to, right now, and be more free.

You've talked a lot about your freedoms that you are gaining by leaving.  But what are you doing to help take down this evil American empire?  Nothing!  Your suggestion is just to leave.  But leaving doesn't affect them at all.

Those of us who are staying are well aware that we could be more free by leaving.  But we're also aware that if we do that, they've already won. 

I want this world to be free for my children and grandchildren, and I'm willing to fight the odds and try to end this tyranny now. 

So if you want to go, go!  Just know that the 350,000 you're spending to free one person (yourself), could buy a whole helluva lot of Keene Free Presses, 9-11 videos, advertisements, etc, to help free millions of people.

[Mrs. Concious]

Freedom is not free.

Now click your heals together to magically return to Kansas.

[CNHT]

Can't speak for all of those on the forum, but most of us are smart enough to realize that there are places we could go to, right now, and be more free.

If you're over 40 you know this is not true.
And if you have to be wealthy to PAY to be free, then it's not real freedom, which should be available to anyone and everyone. Hmm.

[Mrs. Concious]

I know who this person is and I rather think they are leftists, looking for a 'free' country = handouts. There's a ton of welfare and poor people in those islands....

I am in the guiness book....first democrat to openly despise taxation!

[CNHT]

I know who this person is and I rather think they are leftists, looking for a 'free' country = handouts. There's a ton of welfare and poor people in those islands....

I am in the guiness book....first democrat to openly despise taxation!

AHA!!!!! So I was on the right track....so there. But you seem to love money and think that's the end all be all to being 'free'.

(I'd rather stay here and spend it on a party for my friends!)