Free speech in school

[KBCraig]

Found it.

March 15, 2006
Mayor Suspends Top Jail Chaplain While Defending Free Speech
By SEWELL CHAN

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg suspended the Correction Department's top chaplain for two weeks yesterday in connection with remarks he made about the White House being occupied by terrorists. The mayor acknowledged that the words were "inappropriate and offensive," but he also offered a vigorous defense of the right to free speech, which he said was under increasing attack.

( . . . )

"Looking across America, it seems that free speech is being attacked by the right under the guise of patriotism and by the left through academic intolerance that stifles necessary debate," he said. He later added: "As Americans, we should never pander to xenophobia, anti-intellectualism or convention. We must never be afraid of free speech or multiculturalism ? the genesis of America's founding. And we must never use the war on terror, or political correctness, as the pretext for stifling political speech."

... while the mayor did exactly the thing he condemned.

Kevin

[KBCraig]

And this surprises you, Kevin? It's done all the time. Too many people don't pay attention to what politicians do. Only what they say. For instance, Clinton said he was a Centrist. He didn't act like one. He merely claimed to be one. Dubyah claims to be a "compassionate conservative" but I haven't seen any compassion in his actions, except maybe to his monied friends.

I wish I could be surprised, but I'm way past that point.

The traditional views are that liberals for for big government, and conservatives are for big business. It seems the definition of "compassionate conservative" is someone who favors both.

Kevin

[1984IsNow]

The superintendent of schools couldn?t agree more.

?Clearly, in school we don?t want to in any way infringe on free speech and individual rights,? said Robertson. ?Golly, we need to teach that.?

Golly.

George Orwell would be dumbfounded at the level of doublespeak we've seen lately. The part you quoted also jumped out at me. And then just yesterday, as the Kansas governor vetoed a concealed carry law, she stated, "I support the Second Amendment and the right of our citizens to keep and bear arms. (. . . ) Because of opposition from law enforcement and business leaders, I cannot support allowing hidden weapons into businesses, restaurants, malls and any number of other public places."

Reminds me of a police chaplain who was fired recently for criticizing Bush. The chief, in explaining his decision to fire the man, launched into a long spiel about how he had to fire the man, because it was so important to protect free speech.

Gee golly George. Orwell, that is.

Kevin

And this surprises you, Kevin? It's done all the time. Too many people don't pay attention to what politicians do. Only what they say. For instance, Clinton said he was a Centrist. He didn't act like one. He merely claimed to be one. Dubyah claims to be a "compassionate conservative" but I haven't seen any compassion in his actions, except maybe to his monied friends.

I think you're giving people too much credit.
I don't think the average citizen even really pays attention to what they say, forget just what they do.  It's all about selective listening, that is precisely why the speeches are written how they are.  If some gun-nut hears "I support the right to bear arms", ding, they are instantly biased for the rest of the speech.  Politicians do not speak to inform, they speak to influence.
Wonderful to find some people who appreciate Orwell's foresight as much as I do. *note my user name*

[Kat Kanning]

Sounds like that'd be a great protest, Dada.

[1984IsNow]

I would love to help with something like the protest dada mentioned.  I had actually thought about it, before, but wasn't completely sure.  I'm definitely on board with it, I'd just have to run it past my lawyers first.

[PilotApart]

Hi all, Im brand spankn' new to this website and forum.  Anyways yeah Paul Hendrickson is one of my best friends and he had me join this.  I'm very into your political stances and movement.  I also have my own group called the CCLM (Common Citizens Liberation Movement) and i'm still writing my mission statment.  So yeah, anyways to the topic.  Free speach is what school is supposed to be about.  If you can't state opinion and question a certain view point then, whats learning?     

[AlanM]

If you can't state opinion and question a certain view point then, whats learning?

Precisely. That is why I am against public schools. Free exchange of information and ideas doesn't happen under Government control.

[FrankChodorov]

If you can't state opinion and question a certain view point then, whats learning?     

I believe the salient question though is whether or not the school has the right to limit your free speech rights to head off a possible physical confrontation...

this would be similar to not being allowed to yell "fire" in a crowded theater - because of the safety of those you would impact as they tried to rush out of the theater...

[Dave Ridley]

arright, sounds like a demonstration is a possibility then.   Keep us up to date Paul.

[1984IsNow]

I definitely will.  Like I said, I'm really just waiting on a word from my lawyers.  Things are no fun when you're dealing with a court case, you have to be so careful with everything you do.  Eck.

[Dreepa]

Pretty crazy.  It is an anti Nazi patch.... who would be offended?  and furthermore tough shit there is no right not to be offended.

When I was in HS there was a 'racial incident' (it wasn't about race it was about drugs) and everyone wore an orange ribbon to symbolize unity.  I refused to wear one.  Everyone said it was because I must have been racist. ahh the joys of school.

[1984IsNow]

Pretty crazy.  It is an anti Nazi patch.... who would be offended?  and furthermore tough shit there is no right not to be offended.

That's the school's entire standpoint.  They are saying I wore the patch for NO other reason than to try to provoke the local "nazis" into a fight.  there aren't even any nazis at my school, for one thing.  Second, the first 3 days they kicked me out, they never said a single thing about them thinking I was trying to pick a fight with anyone (but rather said I was "causing a disruption", yet could not explain what disruption I had actually caused when that little tactic didn't work on me).  It's obvious that to the school, this was just a power struggle from day one.  I have no doubt in my mind that their story about me simply trying to provoke a fight with some non-existent nazis came to them once this had already begun, because it sounded a lot better than me causing some ambiguous disruption with no real description.

[Dreepa]

So are your parents 100% behind you in this?

Maybe you could wear a jewish star with a line crossed through it... then you can tell the school you can make friends with the nazis.

[Thespis]

This just reminded me of something that went on in my high school. Does anyone remember Big Johnson t-shirts?

[FrankChodorov]

in 1969 the U.S. Supreme Court decision Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, the Court ruled that pupils' free-speech rights could be curtailed if they cause a substantial disruption of school activities or invade the rights of others.

in the specific Tinker case, they found that students who wore black armbands in protest of the Vietnam War were not causing a disruption, and that school officials had erred in disciplining the students.

the question then becomes whether or not the school acted justly in believing that the potential of wearing of the anti-nazi arm patch could substantially disrupt school activities and therefore banning the person wearing it.