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"Let them march all they want, as long as they pay their taxes."  --Alexander Haig

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Author Topic: Real ID, HB 1582  (Read 70771 times)

Dreepa

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Re: Real ID bill (HB1582) hearing in senate for NOW APRIL 10TH!!!
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2006, 11:59 AM NHFT »

Has anyone heard back from any Senators?

I will email them all again.
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Dave Ridley

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Re: Real ID bill (HB1582) hearing in senate for NOW APRIL 10TH!!!
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2006, 02:38 PM NHFT »

Sent this to Senator Fuller Clark and will send to some or all of the others as well

---

For Senator Fuller Clark, opposing Real ID, supporting HB1582



Mahatma Gandhi on "Real ID"

Dear Senator Fuller Clark:

Regarding House Bill 1582, which would place New Hampshire in defiance of the hated Real ID act, history speaks to us.

Near the turn of the last century, British rulers attempted to impose similar, vexatious "identity papers" upon communities in South Africa.   One group, the Indian minority, resisted...led by a young lawyer named Mohandas Gandhi.  History remembers him as  "Mahatma Gandhi."

Gathering them in a meeting hall - perhaps the closest thing they had to our State House - Gandhi asked his community to swear an Oath, pledging that they would not submit to the identity Ordinance, and would suffer all of the penalties attached to such peaceful resistance.  He warned them of the risks they were taking.

"...It is not at all impossible," he said, "that we may have to endure every hardship that we can imagine...

"We may have to go to jail, where we may be insulted...Suffering from starvation and similar hardships...some of us may fall ill and even die."

But, he added:  "If someone asks me when and how the struggle may end, I may say that if the entire community manfully stands the test, the end will be near. If many of us fall back under storm and stress, the struggle will be prolonged. But...so long as there is even a handful of men true to their pledge, there can be only one end to the struggle, and that is victory."

There followed a seven-year struggle in which thousands of Indians including Gandhi were jailed, flogged, or even shot, for refusing to register, burning their identity cards and and other peaceful resistance.  But by 1915 they had won.

How much smaller the risks we face in resisting today, and how much higher the stakes, as almost 300 million Americans stand at the edge of an *abyss.*  Authorities are birthing a system that would allow the rise of a police state in America.   This nation, maybe more than you realize, looks to New Hampshire for inspiration and for leadership.  They look to us to say "no" when no is the only moral thing that can be said.

Senator Fuller Clark, please say no to de-facto Federal ID, and *yes* to HB1582, which pledges our peaceful non-cooperation with this modern equivalent of a British occupier, Washington D.C. 
 
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Dave Ridley

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Re: Real ID rally 4/22
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2006, 05:12 PM NHFT »

There appears to be a deficit of information coming from NHcaspian about the apr 22 demonstration.  I dont' see much about it on their site.  Anyone who knows what's going on please post it here.  Here is what I know:

I talked to mike fisher and gathered that there is some consternation regarding the move of the hearing to april 10.  The rally is now apparently got so many people involved it has become possibly unmovable and NHcaspian folks feel stuck with the apr 22 date.

at the march 30 Caspian meeting the head of the national aclu apparently showed up.  lots of others getting involved.  But will this rally occur after it's too late...like the Battle of New Orleans in the early 1800s?

when is the full vote of the senate>?    They can overturn even an ITL correct?
 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2006, 05:23 PM NHFT by DadaOrwell »
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Dave Ridley

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Re: Massive Protest Against National ID on April 22nd
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2006, 05:19 PM NHFT »

There appears to be a deficit of information coming from NHcaspian about the apr 22 demonstration.  I dont' see much about it on their site.  Anyone who knows what's going on please post it here.  Here is what I know:

I talked to mike fisher and gathered that there is some consternation regarding the move of the hearing to april 10.  The rally is now apparently got so many people involved it has become possibly unmovable and NHcaspian folks feel stuck with the apr 22 date.

at the march 30 Caspian meeting the head of the national aclu apparently showed up.  lots of others getting involved.  But will this rally occur after it's too late...like the Battle of New Orleans in the early 1800s?

when is the full vote of the senate>?    They can overturn even an ITL correct?
 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2006, 05:22 PM NHFT by DadaOrwell »
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Michael Fisher

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Re: Massive Protest Against National ID on April 22nd
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2006, 05:39 PM NHFT »

Well, you have to understand the nature of this event. NH Caspian designed it to be a broad-based coalition event with possibly thousands of people in attendance.

It all began by looking at recent protests in several states which hosted 30,000 or 1,000,000 people.  One of these actually affected legislation. How did they organize such massive events? Gandhi- or MLK-style events are successful for people with a certain personality, but most people do not approach change in that way. A coalition may or may not be the best way to organize an event -- I'm not really sure yet.

The more broad the coalition, the larger the protest will be, but the most extreme messages may be washed down by the moderates and politicos. In the end, if success is met, does that really matter at all? It depends on who you ask.

In this case, the political backers may lose interest because the timing of the event has changed and it's probably too big to accomplish in under 10 days if we move up the date. Regardless, the full senate vote should not occur until after the protest regardless of the committee hearing. *shrug*

I'll let you know what's going on within 24 hours.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Massive Protest Against National ID on April 22nd
« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2006, 06:01 PM NHFT »

If the govt can get around protests simply by moving important dates around, that shows a need for flexibility on the protestors' part... of course the larger the protest is, the more difficult a reschedule.  That said, it must be easier now in the information age.  I hope we can evolve to meet this tactic on the state's part.
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Michael Fisher

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Re: Massive Protest Against National ID on April 22nd
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2006, 06:22 PM NHFT »

Wow, 3,000 posts... that's triple-llama.


 ;)
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Michael Fisher

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Re: Massive Protest Against National ID on April 22nd
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2006, 06:22 PM NHFT »

If the govt can get around protests simply by moving important dates around, that shows a need for flexibility on the protestors' part... of course the larger the protest is, the more difficult a reschedule.  That said, it must be easier now in the information age.  I hope we can evolve to meet this tactic on the state's part.

I agree.
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cliftonyte

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Re: Massive Protest Against National ID on April 22nd
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2006, 07:47 PM NHFT »

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/billstatus/billstatus.asp

Does this HB have a chance of failing?

    I would assume that all here and in the senate are for this bill to pass, as the national ID system is a direct violation of, well...... "everything"  My frickin' drivers license is bad enough! This goverment has us all right by the cohones. This would just be the icing on the cake for those greedy scumbags! I hope this passes. This could be the first step for bigger things to come :D

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Dreepa

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Re: Massive Protest Against National ID on April 22nd
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2006, 08:44 PM NHFT »

If the govt can get around protests simply by moving important dates around, that shows a need for flexibility on the protestors' part... of course the larger the protest is, the more difficult a reschedule.  That said, it must be easier now in the information age.  I hope we can evolve to meet this tactic on the state's part.

I agree.
Did they move it because of the rally?  Are people sure on this? Or is this just a rumor?
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PowerPenguin

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Re: Massive Protest Against National ID on April 22nd
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2006, 09:24 PM NHFT »

LLAMAS! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOOSE BUT YOUR CHAINS AND WEIRD EAR TAGS!! :D
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NH Katherine

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Re: Massive Protest Against National ID on April 22nd
« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2006, 09:28 AM NHFT »

Hi, Guys:

Sorry for not keeping you more in the loop. Joel Winters attended the Merrimack Porcupine meeting (I think I have that right) in Manchester yesterday, so everyone there got an update. Here is what is happening so far:

  • We are working to get as many phone calls and emails as possible pouring into the senators' inboxes this coming week -- and especially next weekend leading up to the vote. We are focusing our efforts on constituents represented by senators on the Public and Municipal Affairs committee (Barnes-R, Burling-D, Hassan-D, Kenney-R, Martel-R, and Roberge-R) along with the Senate leadership (Gatsas-R, Clegg-R, and Larsen-D). 
  • We have created a flyer listing all the towns represented by these selected senators, along with phone numbers and contact info for each one. It will soon be up on the NH CASPIAN website, or you can ask Joel to email you a copy. We need people to go out into those Senate districts with their cell phones programmed to speed dial the senator and elicit phone comments from constituents. The mall, the park (great weather for that!), the dump, anywhere else you can think of to generate maximum calls to the Senators would be great.
  • We have ordered 200 yard signs to place strategically in those 9 districts. Monetary donations and help with placement are needed.
  • We would like to place an ad in 9 different newspapers on Monday morning to run the weekend before the vote encouraging residents to contact their Senator and urge a yes vote. Again, monetary donations and help with placement are needed.
  • The ACLU and CATO institute (talk about weird bedfellows) will be coming to town to do a media event on this, as will Sununu, possibly. This would be a good time for us to do our "papers please" theatrical event. Any volunteers to help?
  • We need people to testify at the hearing, Monday, April 10th at 1:00 PM.

More when I know more.

- Katherine


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Dave Ridley

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Re: Real ID bill (HB1582) hearing in senate for NOW APRIL 10TH!!!
« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2006, 10:25 AM NHFT »

I've posted the april 10 hearing date to the calendar here.  Also what are everyone's thoughts regarding holding a spot demonstration in front of the State House, smaller than the apr 22 demo by far but timely?  What time do you think it should be held?
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citizen_142002

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Re: Real ID bill (HB1582) hearing in senate for NOW APRIL 10TH!!!
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2006, 06:15 PM NHFT »

Some demonstrators looks better than none at all. An April 10 demonstration is a good idea. As for a time, I'd suggest one to two hours befor the debate opens. Which would be between 11 and 12.
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aries

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Re: Real ID bill (HB1582) hearing in senate for NOW APRIL 10TH!!!
« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2006, 06:39 PM NHFT »

If anyone wants to testify before the committee, and rehash the excellent speech that swayed the house vote, the video record of the vote is here: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/live/default.html

Date: march 8th
Video time: 4hr, 8min
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