Real ID, HB 1582

[mr.apathy]

I heard about it a couple nights ago. I've been thinking about pledging. I already am politically active in the state, but I'm unsure. All the people I've met involved in it are Libertarians. Im just a hardcore Independant that loves this country but hates what it has become. Does my politacal allegiance matter?

[Fluff and Stuff]

I heard about it a couple nights ago. I've been thinking about pledging. I already am politically active in the state, but I'm unsure. All the people I've met involved in it are Libertarians. Im just a hardcore Independant that loves this country but hates what it has become. Does my politacal allegiance matter?

Yes, it needs to be pro-freedom 

The majority of FSP members are no Libertarians.  Likewise, the majority of freedom activists in NH are not Libertarians.

[FTL_Ian]

You can be a pro-freedom independant.

Or you can be a Free Marketeer!   

Welcome to the forum.  You'll find that we're all happy to work along side of you on any issues you're pro-freedom on, and you'll find yourself opposed on any issues you are anti-freedom on.

[mr.apathy]

Sounds good, I guess my wife and I are in. Thanks for the welcome.

[FTL_Ian]

You'll find that Liberty is infectious...   

[Dreepa]

Sounds good, I guess my wife and I are in. Thanks for the welcome.

Cool you and your wife can sign separately.

I am not LP.. .I am independent.  But as Ian said... Liberty is infectious.

[KBCraig]

Welcome, Mister A.!

The political affiliations here are varied, and often fleeting. I call myself a small-l libertarian, generally leaning GOP due to the limited choices on the ballot. I have no quarrel with the "small-l" types who lean Democrat, nor the Big-L Libertarians, nor with the outright anarchists. So long as you support Freedom and Liberty, you're on my side!

Kevin

[Dave Ridley]

sending this to sen. barnes

Dear Senator Barnes:

Just wanted to drop you quick (if belated) note to thank you again for calling me back about my Real ID concerns last month.   I am thrilled to see that the Finance Committee has continued to table the 3 million dollar sucker money Washington wants to throw our way.  I'm am also glad that, as best I can tell, you have not recently gone out of your way to further support real ID...at least not since your (unspeakably regrettable) moves to neuter the Real ID Resistance Bill.

I appreciated your offer to "do something to make it right" with the pro-liberty community next year and will likely hold you to it!   If you survive politically, that is. 

The fight against Real ID is probably years away from being over and we will soldier on against this abomination for as long as we have breath.  We could use your help, and as you have witnessed, we are increasingly capable of turning out a lot of demonstrators to support politicians who fight against Real ID.


To paraphrase one of history's more colorful freedom fighters:

Though large tracts of America, and many old and famous freedoms, have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Homeland Security Department and all the odious apparatus of authoritarian rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, peaceably but ever growing in activity and resolve. In this manner, we shall fight in New Hampshire, we shall fight on the sidewalks and streetcorners, we shall fight with growing confidence and strength on the airwaves.

We shall defend our Island of freedom, whatever the cost may be; we shall fight in the papers; we shall fight in the Legislature. We shall fight in the offices of our rulers and on their phone lines; we shall never surrender. And even if this state or a large part of it were subjected and under the thrall of a surveillance regime, her core resisters, armed and guarded by the simple principles of liberty, would carry on the struggle until, until, in God's good time, a new generation, with all the power and might of youth, steps forth to the rescue and liberation of the old.

[d_goddard]

Dear Senator Barnes:

I am also glad that, as best I can tell, you have not recently gone out of your way to further support real ID...at least not since your (unspeakably regrettable) moves to neuter the Real ID Resistance Bill.

[CNHT]

Another state balks at the cost and in conveniece of Real ID:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/07/24/MNGIHK4CT01.DTL

Post your Real ID articles to this thread. I have been remiss but have seen at least 3 or 4 other states worried about it.

Long waits looming for license renewals
DMV officials fear new federal ID rules will lengthen lines
Lynda Gledhill, Chronicle Sacramento Bureau
Monday, July 24, 2006


(07-24) 04:00 PDT Sacramento -- Starting in 2008, all 22 million licensed California drivers will be required to go in person to a DMV office and prove their identity and address with three different documents before getting a new, federally approved state license.

The sheer size and scope of that task -- required by a federal law passed in the wake of Sept. 11 -- already has the state Department of Motor Vehicles worried about lines that would make current complaints about the agency's notoriously slow service seem trivial.

The new identification cards will be required in order to fly on airplanes and enter federal buildings.

Implementing the Real ID Act in California is likely to be complicated by the prolonged effort in the state to grant undocumented workers the right to obtain a driver's license.

The Real ID Act requires every state to issue driver's licenses that comply with a national standard. The goal is to prevent fraud and make sure people applying for licenses are who they say they are and do not pose security risks. The perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks had valid licenses, which allowed them to board airplanes.

"It's clear that this is an anti-terrorism policy, but it has a tremendous impact on driver's licenses," said Bill Cather, legislative director for the

DMV.

The budget signed into law June 30 by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger contains $18.8 million for 36 positions to begin planning for the federal law.

While some initial planning can get started, California and the rest of the states are waiting for the federal government to issue the rules that will explain in detail how the Real ID Act is supposed to be put in place. Those rules are expected by the end of the year, and states have until May 2008 to get ready to issue the new licenses.

States may simply be unable to make that deadline, said Jason King, a spokesman for the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators.

"Without the necessary funding and rules, there is no way the states can fulfill the requirements of the Real ID Act by the deadline specified," King said.

To date, no federal money has been allocated to help states prepare for the new policies.

Real ID will change every facet of a license, although exactly how won't be known until the federal regulations come out. But states are already wondering how to deal with situations such as a license that will not allow initials.

In a lot of ways, California is in good shape compared with some other states. For example, it already requires photos -- not all states do. Its licenses expire every five years, the same length of time states will be given to fully implement the Real ID Act. Some states allow people to hold a license for eight years, meaning those states will have to get drivers into their offices before their licenses expire.

But California does have a major disadvantage. "There are a whole lot of issues -- but for all of them, California's issues are compounded by its size," Cather said.

Indeed, aside from the issues of how to process the new licenses, how they will be verified and what they will look like, California's biggest headache is how to physically get all 22 million licensed drivers -- plus an additional 2 million identification card holders -- through the DMV's 169 field offices.

Currently, a resident can get a license renewal twice by mail, meaning a trip to the DMV only once every 15 years. But under Real ID, every single person seeking a renewal will have to show up in the flesh, eliminating the 2.5 million transactions a year that can currently be done by mail or over the Internet.

"It's going to have a tremendous impact on us," Cather said, noting that many offices are already overcrowded. With no time to build new facilities, he expects modular trailers to be used at many locations.

The DMV also is starting to try to deflect other business to its Web site, hoping that customers who don't need to appear in person will conduct their transactions online, thus clearing the way for license renewals.

"We're starting to emphasize it now so that people use the DMV without coming into the offices," Cather said. "Even with all that, the length of lines could be a tremendous problem."

Once at the office, every person will have to show proof of identification -- likely a birth certificate or passport. The DMV will then be required to verify that document. Cather said the department obviously won't be able to make phone calls to county clerks all across the country; somehow a federal computer system will have to be established, but nothing has been done to date.

Applicants will also have to show two items that prove their address -- it's unknown what those will be, but probably a document such as a utility bill.

While the budgeted money allows the DMV to begin to think about these problems and work on ways to mitigate their effects, Democratic lawmakers made sure the language attached severely limits what the agency can do. In fact, the agency can only spend half the money at first; it must report back to the Legislature on its work before the remainder is allocated.

The bill that would allow the DMV to continue preparing the state for Real ID compliance also would grant driver's licenses to undocumented workers.

Democrats have tied the issues together in an attempt to force the Schwarzenegger administration to broker a deal.

For the seventh year, Sen. Gilbert Cedillo, D-Los Angeles, is working on the effort to authorize California driver's licenses for undocumented workers. It was signed into law by Gov. Gray Davis before he was recalled from office, but Cedillo agreed to repeal the bill rather than face an initiative to overturn it. He thinks Schwarzenegger promised to come up with a compromise measure, but the governor has vetoed the bill every year since.

The Real ID Act permits, but does not require, states to provide driving-only licenses to illegal immigrants. It states that such licenses must have a distinguishing color or mark, an idea Schwarzenegger had proposed at one time but Cedillo had resisted until the federal law was written.

Cedillo said the governor, who is running for re-election, is trying to avoid the issue by asking for the money but not the legislation.

"On the one hand the governor is asking for money, but on the other hand he is playing politics by not signing the bill," Cedillo said.

Last year, Schwarzenegger said he wanted to wait until the federal rules were out before he signed the bill. Schwarzenegger spokeswoman Margita Thompson said the state cannot even begin to guess what the federal government will say is required to prove the identity of someone born outside the United States, or how the license should be different from that granted to a citizen.

But Cedillo said he will not let go of this issue, so if the governor wants legislation to implement the Real ID Act, he will have to deal with the senator.

"I have more time in the Legislature than he has as governor," Cedillo said. "There's no point in waiting. This is a policy he's going to have to implement."

[CNHT]

Another article on Real ID from the those who think it will 'fix' what they think is wrong.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_462857.html

License lunacy
Monday, July 24, 2006

Maryland, with its loose driver's license requirements, has become quite a popular destination for immigrants -- and, no doubt, illegals -- looking for a free ride.
The Old Line State's Motor Vehicle Administration (MVA) reports weekly out-of-country license applications have nearly doubled since March. And what a coincidence, this parallels renewed calls for amnesty for illegals.

Maryland's lure is that it's one of only eight states that do not require a legal residence to get a driver's license. All that's needed is a relative's Maryland address and you're in. (Maryland has no way to verify whether someone is falsely using a relative's address, according to an MVA official.)

Whether or not President Bush gets his amnesty plan, Maryland undoubtedly will get the bill for increased social services for all those immigrants without insurance -- that is, if they stay put or use their dandy new Maryland licenses in other states.


And whom do motorists turn to if an uninsured illegal on the road runs into the family van? They could appeal to Maryland's Democrat-controlled Legislature, which thrice has rejected tougher licensing standards.
There is a silver lining: Under the Real ID Act, licenses from states that do not verify applicants' legal presence won't have the same clout. But that doesn't kick in until 2008.

By then, the damage already will be done.

[KBCraig]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_462857.html

And whom do motorists turn to if an uninsured illegal on the road runs into the family van?

To whom do they turn if an uninsured Mayflower descendent runs into the family van?

Poor argument.

[CNHT]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_462857.html

And whom do motorists turn to if an uninsured illegal on the road runs into the family van?

To whom do they turn if an uninsured Mayflower descendent runs into the family van?

Poor argument.

Not my argument. As I said, I am just posting articles about Real ID whether pro or con so you can see the propaganda, so please don't attribute that question to me as if I said it...make sure you say it's from the article.

Most of the articles I am posting are from states who are realizing the COST, even if they don't trumpet the loss of privacy.

PS - for those of you who remember my famous car wash accident, I ran into a woman with NO insurance. My insurance paid for both of us and thus it went up.
So the fact that I got insurance meant I took on the burden. However, if I am uninsured and hit her and she sued me, I'd be in worse trouble.
I have no idea how she would protect all she owned if she had an accident while driving without insurance herself.

[KBCraig]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_462857.html

And whom do motorists turn to if an uninsured illegal on the road runs into the family van?

To whom do they turn if an uninsured Mayflower descendent runs into the family van?

Poor argument.

Not my argument. As I said, I am just posting articles about Real ID whether pro or con so you can see the propaganda, so please don't attribute that question to me as if I said it...make sure you say it's from the article.

That's why I included the URL in the quote, to make it clear that it was from the article, not you.

Kevin

[CNHT]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_462857.html

And whom do motorists turn to if an uninsured illegal on the road runs into the family van?

To whom do they turn if an uninsured Mayflower descendent runs into the family van?

Poor argument.

Not my argument. As I said, I am just posting articles about Real ID whether pro or con so you can see the propaganda, so please don't attribute that question to me as if I said it...make sure you say it's from the article.

That's why I included the URL in the quote, to make it clear that it was from the article, not you.

Kevin

Ok thanks.