FTL_Ian's Personal Attacks on CNHT

[CNHT]

I said, they have been stirred up (unlike the quiet immigrants who live in peace in NH) by the globalists who are funding the militant LaRaza and stuff to get folks upset and to demand Real ID

Then Jane, get upset at the RealID and those who want to foist it on us.

And I haven't ???

Not the people who are just trying to come here, work, and feed their families.  Who is your real enemy.  Just don't fall for the trap, and you'll be fine.

I haven't gotten 'mad' at the people who come here! And I am telling YOU not to fall for the trap which is either to demand Real ID/fences OR to say, let 'em all overrun the country and erase the borders. The world gov't wins either way!

There IS some truth to what you say.  I was reading USA Today and they have a series called "Common Ground" where a liberal and a conservative are agreeing on something.  A few weeks back, they were agreeing that the best way to fight immigration was to have biometric identifiers on the populace.   

Sometimes I think you people are so jaded by what you THINK someone is going to say that you don't even READ the damned posts!!! Isn't this what I have been saying all along?? Geesh! They are so riled up by the problem they are not thinking about what they are advocating!

Funny because no REAL conservative OR Liberal would agree.  The real common ground is that both liberals and conservatives know that is a terrible idea!  But they are trying to force that agenda.

Nothing like hijacking the premise...  

But they will use ANYTHING they can to try to push their agenda on us.  The thing to do is just not fall for it. 

RIGHT! And that includes not throwing your hands up in the air and saying, aw shucks, just open the borders up real wide!

I think people play into their hands when they start agreeing with them that "illegals" are a problem.  If you think like I do:  namely, that there is no problem, then you won't fall for a "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist.

Caleb

But you HAVE fallen for the problem and it's a win-win situation for the nwo either way. The thing is not to talk about it in terms of no borders vs fences only. I am against all violence and I think the people should have to come here in an orderly and non-violent fashion, not threatening to take over the homes on the other side of the border and evict the people who are already there.

If you think you would defend yourself against someone taking away your liberty, why wouldn't you defend yourself against them taking away your right to live there too? Some of the people on this board would be the first to do it believe me, despite all the talk about 'open borders'.

[CNHT]

Jane, I despise the U.N. too.  I have no intention of falling for any of their schemes.

Saying the U.N. is bad doesn't make the U.S. good.

Or is it just incovenient to remember all the innocent people whose lives have been destroyed by the U.S. just in the past few decades?

Government is about power.  It is about control.  It isn't about morality and justice.

It is a contradiction in terms to think that any government can be a "refuge".

Um, no one said 'government' was a refuge. but then again, I think you love to put words in mouths just for the sake of argument.

[CNHT]

Did you know the UN now owns/runs the STATUE OF LIBERTY? Sick!!!

Unfortunately, the Statue of Liberty is, and always has been, an Illuminati symbol:

"The Statue of Liberty in New York harbour was presented in 1884 as a gift from the French Grand Orient Temple Masons to the Masons of America in celebration of the centenary of the first Masonic Republic.

She is holding the Masonic "Torch of Enlightenment". Also referred to back in the 1700's by the Illuminati Masons as the "Flaming Torch of Reason". The Torch represents the "Sun" in the sky."

"People today do not realise the power of such symbolism, and how they can be used with devastating effect on the minds of the unsuspecting masses."

More:

http://freemasonrywatch.org/statue_of_liberty.html

Aw that's bunk. To most folks the Statue is nothing more than a representative icon of freedom and the fact that the UN has taken it over is just plain shameful.

[Caleb]

???

Jane, what are you talking about?  I'm not trying to be sarcastic, it's a genuine question.

You have me confused?  Since when has any illegal immigrant demanded to be able to kick people out of their homes?  That's a new one for me, and if an illegal immigrant, (or a legal immigrant or for that matter a native born American) thinks that way, he's out of his mind! 

I've known a LOT of illegal immigrants.  I used to work with a Hispanic Church.  But I've NEVER known a single illegal immigrant who wanted to kick people out of their homes.

Caleb

[Caleb]

So why are you so willing to let the UN speed up the taking over of the US if you love it so much? The rest of us love it and want it to be a place of refuge

Now reference this:

Um, no one said 'government' was a refuge. but then again, I think you love to put words in mouths just for the sake of argument.

Jane, to be fair, I've NEVER ONCE personally attacked you.  I disagree with you on some things and agree with you on others, but I've NEVER ONCE personally attacked you.

It's not fair to accuse me of falsehood.  The quotes are there.

Caleb

[CNHT]

???

Jane, what are you talking about?  I'm not trying to be sarcastic, it's a genuine question.

You have me confused?  Since when has any illegal immigrant demanded to be able to kick people out of their homes?  That's a new one for me, and if an illegal immigrant, (or a legal immigrant or for that matter a native born American) thinks that way, he's out of his mind! 

I've known a LOT of illegal immigrants.  I used to work with a Hispanic Church.  But I've NEVER known a single illegal immigrant who wanted to kick people out of their homes.

Caleb

Oh man I don't have time for this. Why not read a little more about this and then come back. Or better yet......let's just drop the subject, OK?

[CNHT]

So why are you so willing to let the UN speed up the taking over of the US if you love it so much? The rest of us love it and want it to be a place of refuge

Now reference this:

Um, no one said 'government' was a refuge. but then again, I think you love to put words in mouths just for the sake of argument.

Jane, to be fair, I've NEVER ONCE personally attacked you.  I disagree with you on some things and agree with you on others, but I've NEVER ONCE personally attacked you.

It's not fair to accuse me of falsehood.  The quotes are there.

Caleb

Aren't you getting pretty presumptuous to say that just because I want a place of refuge from global gov't tyranny that I therefore love government? That's stretching it a bit for sure! That's why you people can't seem to have a normal discussion ? everything is in absolutesa, a crime or the opposite of what you are saying no matter what we say, and it's wrong even if we agree with you...it's called being malcontents.

[CNHT]

Since when has any illegal immigrant demanded to be able to kick people out of their homes?

"Another key document, ?El Plan de Aztlan?, states that ?Aztlan belongs to those who plant the seeds, water the fields, and gather the crops and not to the foreign Europeans. We do not recognize capricious frontiers on the bronze continent?.We declare the independence of our mestizo nation?"

More:

http://thewideawakes.org/archives/2005/06/21/por-la-raza-todo-fuera-de-la-raza-nada-or-how-racist-mexicans-want-to-reclaim-the-american-southwest/

Isn't this what we were talking about all along? Where have you been? This is what is happening down on the border and its being funded by globalists.How can someone not defend their own property? Or, if they won't give it up does that mean they love their country and gov't and should just give it up to prove to you they don't?. The newcomers not only want in, they want it now, and they want to throw the current 'squatters' out. Total chaos...and very different from immigrants that live and work here.

[Lex]

How can someone not defend their own property?

Who is not defending their property? Or who has suggested that they do not defend their property?

Or, if they won't give it up does that mean they love their country and gov't and should just give it up to prove to you they don't?

What does not giving up land have to do with country and government?

Ever heard of something called private property?

The newcomers not only want in, they want it now, and they want to throw the current 'squatters' out. Total chaos...and very different from immigrants that live and work here.

Let them say/think whatever they want, it's a free country, right? And if they decide to actually go ahead and take land then they have another thing coming.

[Caleb]

Jane ... I didn't SAY that you love government.

I'm trying to get you to see that what you want is itself a contradiction.

You CAN'T have a "place of refuge" from evil in the form of government because government itself is evil.  it's like the fox guarding the henhouse.

I know what you want.  (At least, I think I do.)  You want the U.S. to go back to being what it is SUPPOSED to be:  a limited government, which merely acts to protect and defend Americans, and doesn't try to control us.  You want rule of law, original intent, and a Constitution that isn't just "a goddamned piece of paper."

I think that's illusory.

As for lawofattractions Mecha conspiracy ... I would venture to say that not one in 1000 of Mexicans have even heard of it, much less taking part in it.  The fact that you can find a few kooks does not make a "problem", such that we have to "secure our borders".  My fellow Americans are generally pretty tolerant of kookery.  It's why we allow the KKK to march.  It's why we let that kook who thinks we should kill babies after they are born (up to six months or so) teach in our universities.  Tolerance of kookery is about the only thing that can explain Ted Kennedy. 

Once again:  A person can only fall for the "solution" if they admit the problem.

I don't think there's a problem.  So I won't fall for the "solution".  You don't find me clamoring for RealID to combat the "immigrant problem", do you?

All the "problems" associated with immigration are actually problems of GOVERNMENT, not of immigration.  Like welfare.  The solution is simple:  GET RID OF WELFARE!

[CNHT]

Jane ... I didn't SAY that you love government.

I'm trying to get you to see that what you want is itself a contradiction.

You CAN'T have a "place of refuge" from evil in the form of government because government itself is evil.  it's like the fox guarding the henhouse.

I know what you want.  (At least, I think I do.)  You want the U.S. to go back to being what it is SUPPOSED to be:  a limited government, which merely acts to protect and defend Americans, and doesn't try to control us.  You want rule of law, original intent, and a Constitution that isn't just "a goddamned piece of paper."

I think that's illusory.

As for lawofattractions Mecha conspiracy ... I would venture to say that not one in 1000 of Mexicans have even heard of it, much less taking part in it.  The fact that you can find a few kooks does not make a "problem", such that we have to "secure our borders".  My fellow Americans are generally pretty tolerant of kookery.  It's why we allow the KKK to march.  It's why we let that kook who thinks we should kill babies after they are born (up to six months or so) teach in our universities.  Tolerance of kookery is about the only thing that can explain Ted Kennedy. 

Once again:  A person can only fall for the "solution" if they admit the problem.

I don't think there's a problem.  So I won't fall for the "solution".  You don't find me clamoring for RealID to combat the "immigrant problem", do you?

All the "problems" associated with immigration are actually problems of GOVERNMENT, not of immigration.  Like welfare.  The solution is simple:  GET RID OF WELFARE!

You are falling for it. You are saying, just open the borders. That is not the solution either. Are you going to go down there and help defend their homes? What would happen if someone came to stay with you temporarily (in your house) but then would not leave when you asked them to and would not pay you rent??? I don't think I have to answer that.

I think the people on the border have the right to defend their property...from anyone.

[Caleb]

I think the people on the border have the right to defend their property...from anyone.

Well, defending their PERSONAL property is well and good.  Fine by me.  I don't support the right of anyone to intrude on a person's personal property without his consent.

What's that got to do with his "legality" status?  Is it somehow better if a "legal" person does it?

Or perhaps you are trying to extend the concept to draw an analogy between "personal property" and "national boundaries"?

I really am confused, Jane.  I'm lost in this conversation because I don't know what you're talking about.  How on earth are illegal immigrants intruding on personal property and refusing to leave?  I've never personally asked anyone to leave my home, but if I did, I imagine an illegal immigrant would be as likely to leave as a native born American.

Caleb

[Lex]

As for lawofattractions Mecha conspiracy ... I would venture to say that not one in 1000 of Mexicans have even heard of it, much less taking part in it.

"MEChA groups exist on 90 percent of the public high school, college and university campuses in the Southwestern United States."

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

I'm sure there are Libertarian party groups on 90 percent of the school campuses in the US... consistenting of one or two people ;-)

[Caleb]

"MEChA groups exist on 90 percent of the public high school, college and university campuses in the Southwestern United States."

What does that prove?  Lots of really weird groups find niche markets on university campuses.  It's part of growing up and finding yourself.

The illegal immigrants I know don't go to college.  Methinks if they're on a university campus, they're probably here legally.

Caleb

[Caleb]

You're scared of a group that is 1200 members strong?  ???   The KKK has to have WAY more members than that.  Are you scared of them too?

Caleb