Just a thought.

[Pat K]

We folks of the FSP belive that you can change the colture and politics of an area by Moving 20k to an area.

What do you think will happen to an area, that while much larger, has tens of million's of people move to it.


This is a critical question for the border problem.

Though I can not bring myself to want to keep out anyone, I also cant help but notice that so far this mass movement is not helping liberty any.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Well...assuming you're talking about Mexicans, and people from Central and south America, they're not the liberty minded people our theoretical 20K are.
Negative connotations associated with immigrants are a result of the government making others pay the way for some of them.
Many of them  work more cheaply than many of us, because the are willing to live lower on the Hog.
In the late '70's I met a Vietnamese family who had a nice house in the suburbs.  they paid cash for it after living here for two years. Each parent worked two jobs.  Every kid had a job, babysitting, paper route and all contributed their salaries. They lived in a two bedroom apartment. The grandmother cooked the meals, cleaned the house and took care of the smaller children.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Of course, as I typed that, I was watching a CNN report about outbreaks of TB in the states where ilegal immigrants come in.

[aries]

We don't want to keep anti-liberty people out. We just want to be able to say in singsongy voices "Sorry, but it isn't the job of the government to give you free money or aid!"

[tracysaboe]

We don't want to keep anti-liberty people out. We just want to be able to say in singsongy voices "Sorry, but it isn't the job of the government to give you free money or aid!"

Well, in a "democracy" you might though, because if they vote for more government they're agressing against you.

Tracy

[aries]

We don't want to keep anti-liberty people out. We just want to be able to say in singsongy voices "Sorry, but it isn't the job of the government to give you free money or aid!"

Well, in a "democracy" you might though, because if they vote for more government they're agressing against you.

Tracy

Make no mistake about it, liberty can not have democracy.

Society always wants to have its cake and eat it too...

[Russell Kanning]

To me it seems like a government created problem. As long as places like CA continue the way they are some of the worst people will be attracted there and the best will move out.

[Fluff and Stuff]

We folks of the FSP belive that you can change the colture and politics of an area by Moving 20k to an area.

Um, I don't think that.  I think by moving 20,000 pro-liberty activist in to a low population state that already leans pro-liberty, we can make the pro-liberty leaning state lean even more pro-liberty.

BTW, if there is massive immirgation reform, like Bush and the Senate are pushing for, that is great news for the 100s of non US citizens that want to move to NH.

[Dreepa]

To me it seems like a government created problem. As long as places like CA continue the way they are some of the worst people will be attracted there and the best will move out.

that is what I think.

[FrankChodorov]

We don't want to keep anti-liberty people out. We just want to be able to say in singsongy voices "Sorry, but it isn't the job of the government to give you free money or aid!"

Well, in a "democracy" you might though, because if they vote for more government they're agressing against you.

Tracy

Make no mistake about it, liberty can not have democracy.

Society always wants to have its cake and eat it too...

democracy can't work without having a deliberative body so that voters can't be manipulated.

town meeting is a deliberative body where citizens act as their own legislators.

and a face to face, deliberative body is basically limited by size.

we must devolve power to face to face, direct deliberative bodies...

[AlanM]

We don't want to keep anti-liberty people out. We just want to be able to say in singsongy voices "Sorry, but it isn't the job of the government to give you free money or aid!"

Well, in a "democracy" you might though, because if they vote for more government they're agressing against you.

Tracy

Make no mistake about it, liberty can not have democracy.

Society always wants to have its cake and eat it too...

democracy can't work without having a deliberative body so that voters can't be manipulated.

town meeting is a deliberative body where citizens act as their own legislators.

and a face to face, deliberative body is basically limited by size.

we must devolve power to face to face, direct deliberative bodies...

Democracy can't work, period. Once the majority recognizes their power to tyranize the minority (which they have), then the minority becomes subject to abuse of this power. Documents lose their meaning as the majority wishes them to.

[FrankChodorov]

We don't want to keep anti-liberty people out. We just want to be able to say in singsongy voices "Sorry, but it isn't the job of the government to give you free money or aid!"

Well, in a "democracy" you might though, because if they vote for more government they're agressing against you.

Tracy

Make no mistake about it, liberty can not have democracy.

Society always wants to have its cake and eat it too...

democracy can't work without having a deliberative body so that voters can't be manipulated.

town meeting is a deliberative body where citizens act as their own legislators.

and a face to face, deliberative body is basically limited by size.

we must devolve power to face to face, direct deliberative bodies...

Democracy can't work, period. Once the majority recognizes their power to tyranize the minority (which they have), then the minority becomes subject to abuse of this power. Documents lose their meaning as the majority wishes them to.

the reason why is the majority are trying to address issues of economic and social justice in an arbitrary (unconstitutional way) rather than a principled way.

[Ron Helwig]

Democracy can't work, period. Once the majority recognizes their power to tyranize the minority (which they have), then the minority becomes subject to abuse of this power. Documents lose their meaning as the majority wishes them to.

You have it backwards, sort of.

Once a minority recognizes that it has the power to act as if it were the majority, that minority abuses that power.

Vocal minorities are the ones that make change. The majority just goes along.

[Lloyd Danforth]

To me it seems like a government created problem. As long as places like CA continue the way they are some of the worst people will be attracted there and the best will move out.

[Russell pats himself on the back]

[Pat K]

We folks of the FSP belive that you can change the colture and politics of an area by Moving 20k to an area.

Um, I don't think that.  I think by moving 20,000 pro-liberty activist in to a low population state that already leans pro-liberty, we can make the pro-liberty leaning state lean even more pro-liberty.

BTW, if there is massive immirgation reform, like Bush and the Senate are pushing for, that is great news for the 100s of non US citizens that want to move to NH.

O-K maybe that a better way to look at it.
Still if you have 10's of millions of people moving to an area that already does not seemto have a liberty leaning is the result goiing to be good?

I guess it would, if the people moving were more liberty minded. Are they?
It would not seem so because those states were it is happing are sure not looking more free.