Republic of NH

[CNHT]

Well, we don't want to. We want to be completely independent. We don't care to be confederated with socialist countries like Vermont or the Canada Maritimes.

Main can do what it wants. If it wants to secede and confederate with you and Canada, fine. If it wants to stay part of the US, fine. If it wants to secede and be it's own independent country that would be wonderful. It doesn't matter. Regardless, whatever they decide to do, it won't make a whole lot of difference as far as NH secession is concerned.

Tracy

Secession is not secession if it's joining Vt or Canada. It's straying far from the FSP NH focus. Keep it NH. Keep it about NH.

[FrankChodorov]

Well, we don't want to. We want to be completely independent. We don't care to be confederated with socialist countries like Vermont or the Canada Maritimes.

Main can do what it wants. If it wants to secede and confederate with you and Canada, fine. If it wants to stay part of the US, fine. If it wants to secede and be it's own independent country that would be wonderful. It doesn't matter. Regardless, whatever they decide to do, it won't make a whole lot of difference as far as NH secession is concerned.

Tracy

Secession is not secession if it's joining Vt or Canada. It's straying far from the FSP NH focus. Keep it NH. Keep it about NH.

do you even understand what confedration means?

as in the articles of confederation?

[FrankChodorov]

I'm all for local control. But it seems to me the state is incharge of designating the bounderies of the individual "local control" by defining the boundaries and how many shiers they are in accordence with their definitions of existing bio-regions.

I'm sorry, but if the state is defining the boundaries of the decentralization, that still sounds like a lot of State control to me.

Tracy

You got it Tracy. Just because its says "secessionist" on the label, doesn't mean it's going to be free. There is usually some megalomaniac behind it all with a 'plan'.
The FSP is more loosely defined and everyone can work together or as individuals from one group to another. There are no boundaries and no socialistic demands to be met.

Jane are you an anarchist like Tracy?

there is no "man with a plan"

the SVR is a secessionist movement without a prescription and a nationally recognized publication (VT Commons) where people can openly discuss what their hopes are for the republic and a nationally known advisor board.

[maineiac]

I hope this will help bridge the gap between us "socialists" and you "anarchists".  We really do need the ideas of us both to make this thing work.

how do you deal with negative and positive externalities?

Frank,

I'm pretty new here, and I could be wrong, but I think the reason you get so much grief and negative karma is because you always post in this particularly annoying form of gobbledygook economic-speak. Your posts need an appended glossary.

Remember, some of us haven't been exposed to this stuff since college, some decades ago. Others, probably never.

[CNHT]

I don't let Frankenbilly's posts bother me anymore. I have him on ignore.

If you come to NH and work with our group(s) you don't need to join nor secede, you can just help people and get things done for the state of NH!

No other committment required!

[FrankChodorov]

I hope this will help bridge the gap between us "socialists" and you "anarchists".  We really do need the ideas of us both to make this thing work.

how do you deal with negative and positive externalities?

Frank,

I'm pretty new here, and I could be wrong, but I think the reason you get so much grief and negative karma is because you always post in this particularly annoying form of gobbledygook economic-speak. Your posts need an appended glossary.

Remember, some of us haven't been exposed to this stuff since college, some decades ago. Others, probably never.

the concept of externalities is a pretty standard term within the study of economics and a quick search on wiki will usually be relatively accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality

In economics, an externality is a side effect from one activity which has consequences for another activity but is not reflected in market prices. Externalities can be either positive, when an external benefit is generated, or negative, when an external cost is generated from a market transaction.

[maineiac]

I hope this will help bridge the gap between us "socialists" and you "anarchists".  We really do need the ideas of us both to make this thing work.

how do you deal with negative and positive externalities?

Frank,

I'm pretty new here, and I could be wrong, but I think the reason you get so much grief and negative karma is because you always post in this particularly annoying form of gobbledygook economic-speak. Your posts need an appended glossary.

Remember, some of us haven't been exposed to this stuff since college, some decades ago. Others, probably never.

the concept of externalities is a pretty standard term within the study of economics and a quick search on wiki will usually be relatively accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality

In economics, an externality is a side effect from one activity which has consequences for another activity but is not reflected in market prices. Externalities can be either positive, when an external benefit is generated, or negative, when an external cost is generated from a market transaction.

In that case, you just deal with them, no coercive collective required. Freely entered associations are OK by me, though!

Incidentally, wikis are fine, but I don't necessarily consider them accurate.

[FrankChodorov]

In that case, you just deal with them, no coercive collective required. Freely entered associations are OK by me, though!

but that is the point - your freely entered associations to transact subjects a third party (me) to the costs (negative externalities) as in pollution...the cost can only be paid by violating my absolute right to the fruits of my labor and thus self-ownership itself.

inorder for that - violating the fundamental tenet of libertarianism - not to happen we have to devise a system that internalizes the externalities at the point of sale (in the price).

the root cause was the neo-classical/marginalist utility/austrian school revolution in economics of which I dare say almost every right libertarian on this board takes as the absolute truth.

Incidentally, wikis are fine, but I don't necessarily consider them accurate.

that is why a used two qualifiers "usually" and "relatively" before accurate...

[Russell Kanning]

It would be best to keep the Federal Government "external" to NH.

[mr.apathy]

All I'm saying is that some "form" of government would be needed after secession. But, I think that if someone wants to not be governed, than that should be thier right.

To be more specific, if someone wanted to claim their property a "government free zone", they wouldn't contribute to the government financially, and they would not recieve anything in return.

No police, fire, education, road maintenance, town water, grants, etc. They would take the responsibility of providing those things for themselves. This would especially work well for small self sufficient communities.

As far as contributing to the economy, they could still work and spend money if the currency was based upon the productivity of the people and companies within the "country, nation, confederacy, (whatever is PC this week).  Forget about Federal value, or Federal backing.

Let's face it, if we secede, NH will need much more local support from things that we normally buy from abroad.  The economy will not succeed if the Free NH has the unbalanced trade deficits of our current nation.  Working together as a people would have to be our strongest trait.  That is why I was trying to brush aside the big hairy elephant in the forum: "socialists" vs. "anarchists".

[tracysaboe]

Let's face it, if we secede, NH will need much more local support from things that we normally buy from abroad. 

I don't know about that. With-out all those federal tarrifs, it could potentially be much much cheeper (half price or less on many goods) to purchase abroad then it doesn now.

Tracy

[mr.apathy]

I know alot of people in this forum love free trade, but I don't.  If I buy one more piece of crap made in China that breaks in two days after purchase, I'm going to scream.  My parents have a Magnavox TV from 30 years ago, still works fine.

The last time that I went clothes shopping I started to tear up a little.  Jeans made in Pakistan, Columbia, Mexico, all selling for $40.  The cotton is grown and processed here, and then shipped abroad. They throw it together with child labor at pennies on the dollar and then sell it to me at ridiculous profit.  A couple of washes later they'll start to unseam somewhere.

To me, Free Trade seems like something out of the NWO playbook.  It organizes the world into roles.  Poor countries have been industrialized into the product machines, while our economy has turned solely into a service economy where we buy or sell the products.  I don't want to be a damn product server.  Let's provide for ourselves and build ourselves up stronger.

Sorry about the tangent, let's get back to this Republic of NH thing.

[CNHT]

I know alot of people in this forum love free trade, but I don't.  If I buy one more piece of crap made in China that breaks in two days after purchase, I'm going to scream.  My parents have a Magnavox TV from 30 years ago, still works fine.

The last time that I went clothes shopping I started to tear up a little.  Jeans made in Pakistan, Columbia, Mexico, all selling for $40.  The cotton is grown and processed here, and then shipped abroad. They throw it together with child labor at pennies on the dollar and then sell it to me at ridiculous profit.  A couple of washes later they'll start to unseam somewhere.

To me, Free Trade seems like something out of the NWO playbook.  It organizes the world into roles.  Poor countries have been industrialized into the product machines, while our economy has turned solely into a service economy where we buy or sell the products.  I don't want to be a damn product server.  Let's provide for ourselves and build ourselves up stronger.

Sorry about the tangent, let's get back to this Republic of NH thing.

Mr. you are right about free trade being under the auspices of the NWO/UN, so what is the solution? What do you think about the superhighway to connect Mexico, US and Canada?

Also, I buy most of my clothes from Land's End. The prices are reasonable and they do not fall apart no matter where they are made. If they do, they will replace them for you. Sure you can find cheaper things, but they do rip in one use sometimes so the few dollars you save is not worth it.

Men can get their whole wardrobe from LE, and ordering from the catalog is so simple once you know your size.

[mr.apathy]

Since the Bush's and  Clinton signed the Free Trade agreements of the 90's, products are getting lower in quality, and with inflation as out of control as it is, the prices really aren't any better than they were before.

I'm by no means an economist. But from a glance it appears not to be working. I would slowly abolish it, one market at a time. Give tax incentives to companies so they could build and operate here.  If the taxes were lower for the companies, maybe it would'nt be so much of a burden to pay a living wage to workers. But alas, that is the key problem with free trade: unethical decision making for a profit.

Thanks for the heads up on LE, I'll check it out.

[CNHT]

Since the Bush's and  Clinton signed the Free Trade agreements of the 90's, products are getting lower in quality, and with inflation as out of control as it is, the prices really aren't any better than they were before.

I'm by no means an economist. But from a glance it appears not to be working. I would slowly abolish it, one market at a time. Give tax incentives to companies so they could build and operate here.  If the taxes were lower for the companies, maybe it would'nt be so much of a burden to pay a living wage to workers. But alas, that is the key problem with free trade: unethical decision making for a profit.

Thanks for the heads up on LE, I'll check it out.

Cool. I so love a man dressed in Land's End! I have a closet full of those clothes, alas, the last thing I could not part with...from my late husband.