Mexico Works to Bar Non-Natives From Jobs

[CNHT]

Open borders is not a world government.

I don't see how it is.

Didn't say it was!

Remove the potential for illegals, or ANYBODY to abuse government power, by either dismantling large portions of the government or creating a legitimate and threatening citizen militia, and the possibility that they will abuse it to achieve any sort of globalist goals goes away.

Right but we're not working on the premise of 'what ifs' we are working on the premise of 'what is'.

Imagine a country whose government only existed to protect its sovereignty, by calling on all the willing people of the nation to voluntarily bear arms and fight when they needed to, for freedom. You could drive in like driving between US states (well, like driving ANYWHERE). You could buy or sell anything, do anything at all, no matter where you came from. The towns would be responsible for overseeing their roads construction and use (not controlled access roads, just "downtown" roads). Could open immigration really be a problem there?

No! But we don't HAVE this yet, and we are FAR from it. And the forces that don't want us to have it are making it harder for us to get it, in every way they can.

[Lex]

Here is the coherent answer which I just found worded so well on the National LP website just as I was getting the information for the LPNH site I am redoing and it echoes exactly what I said:

Their stand on 'World Government'

The Issue: Participation in any form of world or international government threatens the sovereignty of the United States, its citizens and its Constitution.

The Principle: The sovereignty of individual rights is preserved only by minimal government, and subservience to a world government is totalitarianism of a more severe form than to a national government.

Solutions: We oppose U.S. government participation in any world or international government. We support withdrawal of the United States government from, and an end to its financial support for, the United Nations. We oppose any treaty under which individual rights would be violated.

Transitional Action: Specifically, we oppose any U.S. policy designating the United Nations as policeman of the world, committing U.S. troops to wars at the discretion of the U.N., or placing U.S. troops under U.N. command.
---

Does that explain better what I said? Anything that threatens US sovereignty threatens our personal sovereignty.

The word immigration isn't even in the excerpt.

The idea that without government we cannot be sovereign is an oxymoron.

To the contrary, the government owns us, so what difference does it make if we are enslaved by the US Fed or the UN Global Govt.? They both treat us like numbers and squeez the most they can out of us, that is the virtue of big government.

[CNHT]

The word immigration isn't even in the excerpt.
The idea that without government we cannot be sovereign is an oxymoron.
To the contrary, the government owns us, so what difference does it make if we are enslaved by the US Fed or the UN Global Govt.? They both treat us like numbers and squeez the most they can out of us, that is the virtue of big government.

The word sovereign MEANS self-governing -- no other country or governmental body should be allowed to tell the US what to do, as the UN is doing.
The FSP wants people to work for smaller gov't not NO gov't. They do not believe in World Gov't either.
Open borders does not = world gov't but it sure is going to speed things along.

What makes you think a couple people in NH not paying their taxes is going to make gov't go away completely, yet an entity llike the UN has absolutely no say in what we do? It's absurd!

[BillyC]

The militant groups like LaRaza. Our own government is alerting the Mexicans to the folks who have been monitoring the borders. And the groups are being funded by Soros, and other left wing globalists.

So, you want the same government that is funding LaRaza to protect the border?

First I would like to say I don't know anyone who is Anti-immigration.
So stop throwing that Leftwing liberal attack crap around when discussing illegal immigration if you would please.
No we don't want  the same government that is funding LaRaza to protect the border........ the Feds are only good at taking we have worked for as a nation and they do it through trickery and at gun point..

We all ready have a pro-legal immigration group of Patriot Americans watching our borders right now. 
"see link below"

Minutemen in the News
http://www.minutemanhq.com/hq/webheadlines.php?tid=1

The Federal/Corporate owned Government wants open borders and illegal immigrants.
It is easier to exploit these people, to pay them slave wages.
Their employers can mistreat them and not worry about repercussion from the law either.


Is this really what people want?
Is this what FTL is advocating for?

If wages continue to decline and America is reduced to a Mexico style economy then what.

[Lex]

First I would like to say I don't know anyone who is Anti-immigration.
So stop throwing that Leftwing liberal attack crap around when discussing illegal immigration if you would please.

Immigration is immigration, wether it's "illegal" or "legal". In one instance you have to go through bureaucracy and in the other you have to be a little sneeky. Both produce the same result, you end up immigrating from one country to another. I immigrated to America the legal way and trust me it is not something I would wish on any sane individual, it takes YEARS to complete all the bureaucratic hoops.

And the point of all this is? Security? The terrorists all came here legally. "Legal" Immigration is a fraud and a socialist plot to keep thousands of government works employed processing paper. We're all paying for this too.

No we don't want  the same government that is funding LaRaza to protect the border........ the Feds are only good at taking we have worked for as a nation and they do it through trickery and at gun point..

Whome do you want to "secure the border" then?

We all ready have a pro-legal immigration group of Patriot Americans watching our borders right now. 

I don't have anything against the Minutemen, they are protecting their land with their own money and manpower. I'm all for it!

How do they have anything to do with New Hampshire though? They are strictly a Texas group from what I understand and their goal is to keep mexicans from going on their property. I don't see them defending their property as being anti-immigration. I wouldn't support the Minutemen shooting the mexicans on public property but I wouldn't get involved either. It's none of our business and up to the Mexicans and the Minutemen to work out their issues.

The Federal/Corporate owned Government wants open borders and illegal immigrants.

Again with this "illegal" immigration idiocy. What the hell does that even mean? How can the government be promoting "illegal" immigration, that's an oxymoron, Government is the legal body, whatever they say is automatically "legal" by virtue of them being the Government. Sure you could get into technicalities but when all is said and done the government can do whatever the hell they want and later pass any laws necessarry to make whatever it is they did "legal".

It is easier to exploit these people, to pay them slave wages.
Their employers can mistreat them and not worry about repercussion from the law either.

That's a bullshit argument and you know it! Everyone who came to America in the last century has had to work low wages and difficult jobs to get anywhere, the Irish, the Slavs, etc. Now they own the factories and restaurants where they worked or have started new ones.

You gotta start somewhere, low wages is better then no wages. In fact I'm sure all of these people are MUCH better off working low wages here then what might happen to them if they stay in Mexico (otherwise they wouldn't have risked coming here?)

Cheaper labor means cheaper products. Maybe one day we can go back to everything being Made in America. But the only way we can do that is if we import more hard working people. Most Americans prefer the office or services jobs because they pay more and are easier than sweating all day in the factory or field.

Is this really what people want?
Is this what FTL is advocating for?

Sure.

If wages continue to decline and America is reduced to a Mexico style economy then what.

The whole outsourcing and cheap immigrant labor "problem" is all socialist propoganda, it's not even worth arguing.

[BillyC]

First I would like to say I don't know anyone who is Anti-immigration.
So stop throwing that Leftwing liberal attack crap around when discussing illegal immigration if you would please.

Immigration is immigration, wether it's "illegal" or "legal". In one instance you have to go through bureaucracy and in the other you have to be a little sneeky. Both produce the same result, you end up immigrating from one country to another. I immigrated to America the legal way and trust me it is not something I would wish on any
sane individual, it takes YEARS to complete all the bureaucratic hoops.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<I disagree one is legal one is not.
Just because the result is the same does not make it right.
If you came here the right way then I welcome you and I hope you prosper and get to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

It takes years to bring new people in because over population sucks.....and intergration is a must. That takes time >>>>>>>>>>>>>

And the point of all this is? Security? The terrorists all came here legally. "Legal" Immigration is a fraud and a socialist plot to keep thousands of government works employed processing paper. We're all paying for this too.


>>>I am not concerned with terrorist......Most of us know who the terrorist are!
They are not Mexicans sneaking across the border nor are they down trodden Muslims who live in mud huts.
I do think there are racist in all groups that hate Americans or whom ever but that is to be expected with the policy of our government and its constant meddling in other countries affairs.

Those of us against illegal immigration with out integration enjoy the lifestyle and culture we have.
If people from other countries come here and do not become apart of this country or its culture then the only reason they are here is to tear it down.
As an American it is my duty to defend my Country "not my Government" and what it stands for.
We are a prosperus Nation for a reason and letting others come here to try and make more like the Countries they fled from is just well stupid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>

No we don't want  the same government that is funding LaRaza to protect the border........ the Feds are only good at taking we have worked for as a nation and they do it through trickery and at gun point..

Whome do you want to "secure the border" then?

>>>>>>>
See Above
>>>>>>>>

We all ready have a pro-legal immigration group of Patriot Americans watching our borders right now. 

I don't have anything against the Minutemen, they are protecting their land with their own money and manpower. I'm all for it!

How do they have anything to do with New Hampshire though? They are strictly a Texas group from what I understand and their goal is to keep mexicans from going on their property. I don't see them defending their property as being anti-immigration. I wouldn't support the Minutemen shooting the mexicans on public property but I wouldn't get involved either. It's none of our business and up to the Mexicans and the Minutemen to work out their issues.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
I don't support the Minutemen or any one else shooting someone unless they were being fired upon them selves.
The Minutemen don't just see this as protecting their property they are saving there country from an invasion.

I think the people of NH should secure there own borders, if they ask for the Minutemen to assist the I am ok with that too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The Federal/Corporate owned Government wants open borders and illegal immigrants.

Again with this "illegal" immigration idiocy. What the hell does that even mean? How can the government be promoting "illegal" immigration, that's an oxymoron, Government is the legal body, whatever they say is automatically "legal" by virtue of them being the Government. Sure you could get into technicalities but when all is said and done the government can do whatever the hell they want and later pass any laws necessarry to make whatever it is they did "legal".

It is easier to exploit these people, to pay them slave wages.
Their employers can mistreat them and not worry about repercussion from the law either.

That's a bullshit argument and you know it! Everyone who came to America in the last century has had to work low wages and difficult jobs to get anywhere, the Irish, the Slavs, etc. Now they own the factories and restaurants where they worked or have started new ones.

<<<<
No its not bull shit I have seen it first hand.
I was a roofer for years.
I seen how they were treated and eventually I could not compete with the illegal hiring of these guys.
I don't care if they are hard working or not If they want to work hard then they need to work hard in their own dam country.
They are here taking jobs that us hard working Americans want.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

You gotta start somewhere, low wages is better then no wages. In fact I'm sure all of these people are MUCH better off working low wages here then what might happen to them if they stay in Mexico (otherwise they wouldn't have risked coming here?)
>>>>>>>>>
That is a tired argument if they want better wages then fix their own broken country.
Instead of coming here and helping to break ours.
>>>>>>>>>>

Cheaper labor means cheaper products. Maybe one day we can go back to everything being Made in America. But the only way we can do that is if we import more hard working people. Most Americans prefer the office or services jobs because they pay more and are easier than sweating all day in the factory or field.

>>>>>>>>>>>
I am one of those  Americans that sweats his ass off every day.
These people are not makeing my products cheaper they are making life here more expensive.
China slave labor makes my products cheaper not an illeagle mopping floors at walmart.
If I loose my job to one of these people at my age my only option is crime or welfare.
Both of those options are unacceptable.
I can not roof anymore because those jobs are reserved for Illegals.

Is this really what people want?
Is this what FTL is advocating for?

Sure.

>>>>
Then you are an enemy to this country.
>>>>

If wages continue to decline and America is reduced to a Mexico style economy then what.

The whole outsourcing and cheap immigrant labor "problem" is all socialist propoganda, it's not even worth arguing.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
socialist propoganda thats funny, people who want to keep their jobs and have issue with those jobs going to slave labor are not socialist!
You are right arguing with a fool who has no allegiance to this country is not even worth it.
You are an enemy of the people of this country.
I love this country,  Its mine.
It was stolen from my family by people like you once and I will not willingly let it happen again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Lex]

It was stolen from my family by people like you once and I will not willingly let it happen again.

What about dem engines your family butchered to live here? Huh?

You my friend are more of an illegal immigrant than I am by your definition. I came here through the bureaucracy while your family didn't have to do jack squat except shoot up a bunch of Indians.

I have no blood on my hands but I can't say the same for you.

[Lex]

socialist propoganda thats funny, people who want to keep their jobs and have issue with those jobs going to slave labor are not socialist!

Socialism is when everyone is guaranteed a job. You want to keep your job by having the government forcefuly prevent other people from taking it, that is pure and simple socialism.

If I was a businessman with employees and I had a choice of hiring someone at a higher wage or a lower wage with the same qualifications, I would choose lower wage because that makes more economic sense. To force me to pay taxes so that my taxes could go to prevent me from being able to hire cheaper labor is just plain wrong and goes against all economic freedoms that America was founded on.

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO A JOB! Unless you live in a socialist country. And with so many people demanding that their jobs be guaranteed we are moving America towards socialism every day. Thanks for playing your part.

Btw, With Freedom comes great responsibility. If you want to be Free then you have to let others be Free. You cannot only want freedom when it suits your interests.

[AlanM]

Btw, With Freedom comes great responsibility. If you want to be Free then you have to let others be Free. You cannot only want freedom when it suits your interests.

Truer words were never spoken. Thank you Lex

[CNHT]

What about dem engines your family butchered to live here? Huh?

You my friend are more of an illegal immigrant than I am by your definition. I came here through the bureaucracy while your family didn't have to do jack squat except shoot up a bunch of Indians.

I have no blood on my hands but I can't say the same for you.

dem engines?   I assume you mean Indians. Since my family just came here last generation I don't have any part in that, but it sounds like the politically correct has gotten to you.
I guess the 'free market' of who can take over the land better only counts when you want it to?

[CNHT]

Btw, With Freedom comes great responsibility. If you want to be Free then you have to let others be Free. You cannot only want freedom when it suits your interests.

Truer words were never spoken. Thank you Lex

So you don't like the settlers pressing on the Indians (Natives) that were here, but it's OK for the Mexicans to do it? Hmm, I am having trouble following that line of reasoning.

And as for sovereignty, check the link below....the sooner this happens, the sooner we will have world government, and you can kiss ALL YOUR freedom goodbye:

http://www.thenhf.com/national_health_federation_january2006_NACSA_pr.htm

Freedom is not free, you have to work at it....and sometimes even have a few laws...else how to define yourself from predators?

[CNHT]

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO A JOB! Unless you live in a socialist country. And with so many people demanding that their jobs be guaranteed we are moving America towards socialism every day. Thanks for playing your part.

Btw, With Freedom comes great responsibility. If you want to be Free then you have to let others be Free. You cannot only want freedom when it suits your interests.

Alright then what will you do with all the folks that are coming here BECAUSE they want to suck off the system? And don't tell me get rid of welfare  because if I thought that was going to happen any time soon I'd do the happy dance. I really do not think it will ever happen because people (other than us) don't want it to.

[Lex]

So you don't like the settlers pressing on the Indians (Natives) that were here, but it's OK for the Mexicans to do it?

Please pay attention:

I don't have anything against the Minutemen, they are protecting their land with their own money and manpower. I'm all for it!

How do they have anything to do with New Hampshire though? They are strictly a Texas group from what I understand and their goal is to keep mexicans from going on their property. I don't see them defending their property as being anti-immigration. I wouldn't support the Minutemen shooting the mexicans on public property but I wouldn't get involved either. It's none of our business and up to the Mexicans and the Minutemen to work out their issues.

[CNHT]

Lex, we are not anti-immigration. We are anti-globalist because we know that means socialism. And part of this push to erase the southern and northern borders is to blend us in with the rest of the world so there will be no resistance. By causing all this strife, they are presenting the problem and the solution, a typical Marxist ploy.

Please read more on this:

http://www.thenhf.com/national_health_federation_january2006_NACSA_pr.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/Wood/patrick6.htm

THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES WE LOVE. But they are being used as pawns in the game of world government. The globalists are evil....if you think the US is oppressive, just wait!

[Lex]

dem engines?   I assume you mean Indians. Since my family just came here last generation I don't have any part in that, but it sounds like the politically correct has gotten to you.

I was not referring to you Jane by my comment which I realize were not very nice. I was very upset with BillyC for claiming that I was "a fool who has no allegiance to this country", "enemy of the people of this country", "stolen from my family by people like you". If he wants to claim that I stole something from him (what I don't know, I have never even met the guy) than I will point out that he's not so innocent himself and needs to get off his high horse.

Politically correct? More like historically correct. He wants to claim that I messed up his life by immigrating to his country (by advocating freedom apparently), so I'm just pointing out that his relatives messed up the lives of many indians who lived here before them.

I guess the 'free market' of who can take over the land better only counts when you want it to?

I don't understand what you are asking. I'm not a historian, I just repeat what I have learned. I know that indians were killed during colonization of America by the Europeans and I'm simply pointing that out.