House Bill 657 signed into law to promote downtown development...

[FrankChodorov]

NH Legislature Passes Important Downtown Revitalization Bill
Conservation Law Foundation (CLF) Victorious in Promoting Smart Growth over Sprawl

As part of CLF?s ongoing efforts to fight sprawl and promote smart growth, CLF, working with key stakeholders, wrote new legislation recently passed and signed into law by New Hampshire Governor John Lynch. The legislation (House Bill 657) provides communities with a new, innovative tool for promoting the revitalization of city, town and village centers across the state.

The new law enables New Hampshire communities to provide a tax incentive to property owners who substantially rehabilitate underutilized downtown buildings. In particular, property owners rehabilitating downtown buildings within these communities can be granted a tax relief period during which property taxes on renovated buildings will not increase as a result of the rehabilitation. The duration of the tax relief period, determined at the community level, can be up to five years, with up to an additional four years for projects that include affordable housing.

CLF believes that directing future development into compact town centers is a critical solution for promoting vibrant, livable communities as an alternative to land-consuming sprawl development. Because market forces often make it easier and cheaper to build in undeveloped areas, this new law provides an important tool for New Hampshire communities to promote this more sustainable form of development, and to help level the playing field between downtown development and sprawling outlying development.

[Dreepa]

I am no zoning expert but doesn't zoning promote sprawl.

[aries]

I am no zoning expert but doesn't zoning promote sprawl.

Zoning makes business owners more reluctant to bother opening up shop.

Zoning promotes cities looking like this:
im sure you can tell what is commercial, what is residential, etc.

[FrankChodorov]

I am no zoning expert but doesn't zoning promote sprawl.

zoning is nothing more than a community's attempt to premptively deal with the problem of negative externalities inorder to protect their appreciating land values which are socially created.

the unintended consequences are sprawl pressures...

but sprawl has a number of different root causes...public infrastructure investments and speculation being the two greatest.

[Rhiannon McKinnon]

"property owners rehabilitating downtown buildings within these communities can be granted a tax relief period during which property taxes on renovated buildings will not increase as a result of the rehabilitation. The duration of the tax relief period, determined at the community level, can be up to five years"

In other words, if you submit a bunch of extra paperwork, and jump through more of the government's hoops, they will wait for five years to jack your taxes up due to you having "improved" the property.  Notice that there is no offer to lower taxes, only to wait before raising them.  If you apply for building permits to renovate your property, then they'll jack your taxes up the first chance they get, due to you having "improved" the property.  The best solution is not to apply for building permits at all, not to fill out any paperwork, and renovate your property without the government knowing about it....if you change the exterior appearance as little as possible, and the government dosen't know you've "improved" the property, then you aren't giving them the evidence they need to jack up your taxes.

"doesn't zoning promote sprawl"

Yes.  Zoning does this by specifying minimum lot sizes, setbacks, "maximum density", and "open space" requirements.  Sprawl aside, zoning is an intrusion on property rights.

"Zoning makes business owners more reluctant to bother opening up shop"

Or makes it impossible to open up shop.  Go into an area without zoning, and you will find many people who are self-employed....you see lots of signs for businesses in front of people's houses.  Forcing the would-be businessperson to buy or rent a second, "commerical", property instead of running the business out of their home is what keeps many people from going into business in the first place.  Zoning is an excellent way to keep people from becoming economically self-sufficient.  Hopefully there will be increased interest in repealing zoning regulations, in the name of both property rights and economic development.  Repeal of zoning regulations will do more for economic development than will offering to not jack your taxes up for five years - if you will only jump through all these extra government hoops and fill out a foot-high stack of extra paperwork....

~RM's husband

[aries]

Or makes it impossible to open up shop.  Go into an area without zoning, and you will find many people who are self-employed....you see lots of signs for businesses in front of people's houses.  Forcing the would-be businessperson to buy or rent a second, "commerical", property instead of running the business out of their home is what keeps many people from going into business in the first place.  Zoning is an excellent way to keep people from becoming economically self-sufficient.  Hopefully there will be increased interest in repealing zoning regulations, in the name of both property rights and economic development.  Repeal of zoning regulations will do more for economic development than will offering to not jack your taxes up for five years - if you will only jump through all these extra government hoops and fill out a foot-high stack of extra paperwork....

That's what it's ALL like up here. Zoning would literally kill the north country dead.

More than half of businesses up here are business/residential in downtown, or run out of homes.

[FrankChodorov]

all true...

but you haven't addressed the reason that people want zoning - to protect their appreciating, socially created land values rather than having to go to all of your neighbors and sign individual contracts to restrict what they will use their properties for (junk yards, hog farms, etc)

[AlanM]

all true...

but you haven't addressed the reason that people want zoning - to protect their appreciating, socially created land values rather than having to go to all of your neighbors and sign individual contracts to restrict what they will use their properties for (junk yards, hog farms, etc)

Ah, the hog farm, junk-yard scare tactic. Hey, if you don't want a hog farm next to you, buy the property yourself. Zoning is about taking away property rights, nothing more. It is force.

[Rhiannon McKinnon]

"you haven't addressed the reason that people want zoning"

That's because it's already been said:  "zoning is nothing more than a community's attempt to premptively deal with the problem of negative externalities inorder to protect their appreciating land values"

and again:  "to protect their appreciating, socially created land values rather than having to go to all of your neighbors and sign individual contracts to restrict what they will use their properties for (junk yards, hog farms, etc)"

AHA!  NOW we get to the REAL purpose of zoning - to restrict what someone will use their property for!  Why should I care what my neighbor does with their property?  Why should my neighbor care what I do with mine?  That zoning "protects property values" is a myth.  If what someone else does on their property affects the value of my own, then by all means bring it on - PLEASE start a junkyard on one side of me and a hog farm on another - PLEASE lower my property's value - that way, I can go to the local office of tax assessment and apply to have my property taxes lowered!  But guess what will happen if I do that?  I'll be told that my taxes cannot be lowered, because the assessment is based on MY property....not that of my neighbors!  That what someone does on their own property affects the value of my own cannot be proven unless the use of their property directly and tangibly somehow damages mine....and if that happens, that's what the civil courts are for.  The real reason that people want zoning is to control what people do with property that they do not own....period.  Zoning gets voted into law because 1) how someone is currently using their property becomes grandfathered, so it dosen't affect what someone is already doing, which creates apathy....or....if someone is running a business on their property, zoning will restrict future competition 2) the myth that zoning protects property values continues to be perpetuated by those who want to control what you do on your own property.  Zoning never existed until the 1920's.  Much of the development in our cities occured before zoning was in place.  Neighborhoods were built around factories, slaughterhouses, rail and ship yards, etc so that people could live where they worked, and vice versa....no one considered it undesirable to live next to a factory or mill, in fact, the opposite was true.  No one is saying that our cities were or are any worse off for it, either.  Look at any zoning ordinance and see when it was first enacted....you might be surprised at how recently that was....then look around in the affected area, and you will see for yourself that the community got along just fine without zoning.  Examine property values in areas without zoning, and compare them to adjacent areas with zoning....any difference you find will be insignificant.  Once again, that zoning has anything to do with property values is a myth, and the only reason that anyone wants it is to control what people do with property that they do not own.  Zoning ordinances are some of the most anti-freedom laws on the books, and should be a bigger issue than they are among those who want to work towards increased liberties.

~RM's husband

[Dreepa]

Zoning ordinances are some of the most anti-freedom laws on the books, and should be a bigger issue than they are among those who want to work towards increased liberties.

~RM's husband

Many towns are begging to have people serve on the zoning and planning boards.  You would probably have to 'be calm' for a few years until you had a majority on the board.

[FrankChodorov]

I'll be told that my taxes cannot be lowered, because the assessment is based on MY property...

if a junkyard and hog farm move in next to you - I can assure you your land values will depreciate...

That what someone does on their own property affects the value of my own cannot be proven unless the use of their property directly and tangibly somehow damages mine...

have you never heard of the term negative and positive externalities?

it is a well known and acknowledged economic concept within the profession.

the myth that zoning protects property values continues to be perpetuated by those who want to control what you do on your own property.

that is what externalities means...emminating from outside of your personal sphere of influence/control.

Zoning never existed until the 1920's

yes, it corresponds very nicely with the advent of the car

Zoning ordinances are some of the most anti-freedom laws on the books, and should be a bigger issue than they are among those who want to work towards increased liberties.

I am going to argue that we can get rid of most zoning laws by shifting taxes off of buildings and onto land (kinda what is happening in this bill), ending public infrastructure without re-capturing increased land values to pay for it, and modifying zoning/density/building codes...

[Thespis]

Houston is doing just fine without zoning:

Link

With zoning, a city can regulate the location and design of all land uses, from houses to gas stations to bars. Its supporters said that homes unprotected by zoning risk a loss in property value if a business or apartment locates nearby.

Not necessarily. Drive around central Houston and you'll find plenty of expensive new houses built across the street from or adjacent to existing commercial or apartment buildings. The people who build and buy these homes are not dumb. There is obviously a strong market for homes in convenient urban settings.

This casts doubt on the need for zoning to protect or boost property values. Within Houston are two small, independent cities, Bellaire and West University, with zoning. Between 1970 and 1980 home prices in Bellaire and West University climbed more slowly than in many Houston communities, including those lacking private neighborhood restrictions against businesses and apartments.4 In fact, between 1990 and 1993, average annual home sale prices actually fell in the two zoned cities while sprinting up in a number of Houston neighborhoods, restricted and unrestricted.5 The financial risks to homes unshielded by zoning are, at best, greatly overstated.

In Houston land uses tend to segregate themselves as investors respond to market incentives. Under the Houston system, heavy industry voluntarily locates on large tracts near rail lines or highways; apartments and stores seek thoroughfares; gas stations vie for busy intersections.9

With the market at work there's no need for government-imposed districting. Businesses that open inside quiet residential neighborhoods will compete poorly with establishments that enjoy the visibility and traffic count of a heavily traveled street. Businesses that thrive amidst homes often serve strong local demand.

Pro-zoning fears ignore the self-regulating qualities of the market. In locations with stable demand for single-family homes, healthy real estate values are likely to prohibit many "noxious" uses - like junkyards and machine repair shops-that want cheap land. Without realizing it, the homeowners have "zoned out" such uses through their own free choices. As zoning expert Bernard Siegan says, "the most effective of restrictions [is] competition."

Without zoning, Houston ranks consistently as the leader among major American cities for housing affordability. "It's more affordable here than any other large city in the nation,"

There's more, but I think you get the point. There is no need for zoning laws. Period.

[tracysaboe]

You don't have a right to the value of your property -- only it's integretty, as such property values going down is not an infraction on your property rights -- anymore then the value of a comic book going down or the price of gold fluxuating.

Bill you're realy a mass of contradictions aren't you. You want georgism so that if property values increase through no falut of the owner that that increase gets redistributed to the unlanded. -- yet now your advocating rules and regulations that cause the property values to be artificially propped up to begin with.

If swine smell really bothers you and interferes with the use of your land and you were their first -- then basic property rights can solve that problem all on it's own -- assuming it really is a problem to begin with. Simply file a tort lawsuit.

Their's a really big citi called HOUSTAN, TX that has no zoning laws what-so-ever, and las I heard it's thriving for the most part.

Tracy

[FrankChodorov]

You don't have a right to the value of your property

I am glad you are starting to come around to my view...

You want georgism so that if property values increase through no falut of the owner that that increase gets redistributed to the unlanded

no I want simple justice via equal liberty.

not redistributed - pre-distributed.

not to the unlanded - everyone that your exclusive use excludes including your neighbors who are "landed".

now your advocating rules and regulations that cause the property values to be artificially propped up to begin with.

I am not advocating for zoning - I am telling you why communities enact them...to protect their appreciating land values.

of course in my system there would be no appreciating land values and development would be concentrated in the urban core because speculation would be ended...so no need for zoning, density laws or building codes.

Simply file a tort lawsuit.

individuals are lazy...

Their's a really big citi called HOUSTAN, TX that has no zoning laws what-so-ever, and las I heard it's thriving for the most part.

more so than Hong Kong where no one owns their land (not that I advocate that)?

[Thespis]

Simply file a tort lawsuit.

Totally unnecessary, if you take a look at the second to last quote in my previous post you'll see an example of the market solving a problem like that.