Jeffersonian Libertarian Reform Caucus scores stunning victory @ LP convention

[Pat McCotter]

Alan, please read Jason's actual speech and judge him on that: 
http://freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/cannae_tactic

Also, please keep in mind that Jason does not equal the FSP.  Kat, Russell, me, and most of the people on this forum are just as much the FSP as is Jason.   

Thanks for the link! I missed it at PorcFest.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Thanks Sandy.  I missed it too.  He's probably not suggesting much more incrimentalism than others have in mind.  He's named some specifics which the more radical of us won't agree with, but, he sees 'minimum income' as better than the bureacracy in place now and more palitable to those who political porcs will need to coopt in order to move forward towards a freer state.

[tracysaboe]

I know that your Big Tent actually includes the center pole that holds it up.  But if you go here http://www.qando.net/ and look at various other "Neo-Libertarian" blogs. You'll find that's not the case at all. You'll find that their suposed "big" tent -- is actually a Donut that excludes everything in the hole (The minarchists and anarchists and Constitutionalists and many-times even old-right conservatism.) 

Tracy, you're going to find people of all stripes in the world.  Just know that the neo-lib sites you're reading do not make up the brunt of the incrementalist movement.

I hope your right 

TRacy

[Friday]

True.

As Christians, Christians are actually called to proslatise (Missspelled?) and preach the Gospel, and Teach a better way of life.  We're not to hold our light under a bush, or not spread our salt. Because after a while the salt looses it's saltiness and becomes stagnent and eventually you become no better then the heathans -- in fact you become worse, you become apathetic.

Tracy

Agreed.

However, you definitely misspelled prostylatize -- and you misspelled "misspelled."  Your constant misspellings used to cause me pain, but I've just learned to live with them as a small price to pay for your insights, even though the errors break my copy-editing heart 

Haha!  While criticizing Tracy for misspelling "Proselytize", you misspelled it yourself.   

[AlanM]

read it and weep Tracy!

I had planned to vote Libertarian in the next election. Scratch that. Sorry to those who stand for the old platform.
Enjoy your hollow victory Frank.

hollow victory?

did you hear Jason's speech at the PorcFest?

a suggestion to endorse Charles Murray's "basic income guarantee" concept for NH as a way to attract the left...

Wasn't there. So Jason has sold out too? 

and endorsed the science behind global warming...

he is slowly morphing himself into a bonafide left libertarian!

Sorry to hear that. My respect for him is gone. Witness the death of the FSP.

Alan, please read Jason's actual speech and judge him on that: 
http://freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/cannae_tactic

Also, please keep in mind that Jason does not equal the FSP.  Kat, Russell, me, and most of the people on this forum are just as much the FSP as is Jason.   

Thanks for the link Sandy.
I am not at all in favor of the basic guaranteed income plan he suggests. It is just another form of welfare. He seems to think bureaucratic jobs will be cut. Fat chance. The only way to cut Gov jobs is to eliminate departments, not reshuffle assignments. Jason is falling for the coopt the opponent trap. That trick just twists you around till you lose all moral grounding.
Enough of the little here and there approach. Attack the behemoth head on, wiyth moral purpose.

[FrankChodorov]

I am not at all in favor of the basic guaranteed income plan he suggests. It is just another form of welfare. He seems to think bureaucratic jobs will be cut. Fat chance. The only way to cut Gov jobs is to eliminate departments, not reshuffle assignments. Jason is falling for the coopt the opponent trap. That trick just twists you around till you lose all moral grounding.

if there were a basic income guarantee what exactly would you need any government bureaucrats for?

[AlanM]

I am not at all in favor of the basic guaranteed income plan he suggests. It is just another form of welfare. He seems to think bureaucratic jobs will be cut. Fat chance. The only way to cut Gov jobs is to eliminate departments, not reshuffle assignments. Jason is falling for the coopt the opponent trap. That trick just twists you around till you lose all moral grounding.

if there were a basic income guarantee what exactly would you need any government bureaucrats for?

Why did Revenue Sharing cost so much to administer? It is not about sense. We are talking about Government here. First rule of Government is 'preserve and expand your fiefdom'

[FrankChodorov]

I am not at all in favor of the basic guaranteed income plan he suggests. It is just another form of welfare. He seems to think bureaucratic jobs will be cut. Fat chance. The only way to cut Gov jobs is to eliminate departments, not reshuffle assignments. Jason is falling for the coopt the opponent trap. That trick just twists you around till you lose all moral grounding.

if there were a basic income guarantee what exactly would you need any government bureaucrats for?

Why did Revenue Sharing cost so much to administer? It is not about sense. We are talking about Government here. First rule of Government is 'preserve and expand your fiefdom'

what exactly would we need a welfare dept. for if everyone received a basic income guarantee?

[Braddogg]

True.

As Christians, Christians are actually called to proslatise (Missspelled?) and preach the Gospel, and Teach a better way of life.  We're not to hold our light under a bush, or not spread our salt. Because after a while the salt looses it's saltiness and becomes stagnent and eventually you become no better then the heathans -- in fact you become worse, you become apathetic.

Tracy

Agreed.

However, you definitely misspelled prostylatize -- and you misspelled "misspelled."  Your constant misspellings used to cause me pain, but I've just learned to live with them as a small price to pay for your insights, even though the errors break my copy-editing heart 

Haha!  While criticizing Tracy for misspelling "Proselytize", you misspelled it yourself.   

Could you hand me a towel?  I need to wipe this egg off my face . . . .   

[tracysaboe]

Is "Proselytize" the correct spelling then?

Thanks.

TRacy

[Incrementalist]

Jason is falling for the coopt the opponent trap. That trick just twists you around till you lose all moral grounding.

But the current political paradigm is not a moral one.  If you'd like to make it a moral one, that's another fight entirely.  Right now the paradigm is results-oriented.  When you have a plan, people want to hear why the plan is good and how it will realistically work.  This is the perfect paradigm in which to co-opt the "opponent", in this case people who already agree with us on quite a few issues and who are capable of coming to terms with liberty-oriented positions on others.

Enough of the little here and there approach. Attack the behemoth head on, wiyth moral purpose.

Sun Tzu is rolling over in his grave.

[dead_hobbit]

They have attained cato inst. status.

what's wrong with cato?

[Kat Kanning]

all talk, no action, they don't like the FSP, their writers have been caught taking money from government for writing stories in a certain way.

[dead_hobbit]

all talk, no action, they don't like the FSP, their writers have been caught taking money from government for writing stories in a certain way.

any links to evidence of that?

i only did a google search of cato and "free state project" but i couldn't find anything to indicate they are opposed to the fsp

[Kat Kanning]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2005/12/17/columnist-admits-being-pa_n_12420.html