Lynch: "Fibbing" about his budget record

[Dreepa]

Tracy the Mormons believe 100% in the Old and New Testaments.  That sounds pretty Christian to me.

You don't need to quote their retoric to me. I grew up with them all around me.

They even say that the Bible is Superior to the Book of Morman if there's a contradiction.

But when pressed the Book of Morman is what they really believe. They believe numerous things that are directly contradicted in the Bible. They say it doesn't matter how Jesus died. Even though the whole point of his death was to fullfill all the prophesy of the old testement (which they say they also believe.)

They believe they themselves will be elevated to God Hood -- which is really the same hubris sin lucifer had -- to be like God.

They believe that Adam and Eve were steril and that the only reason got gave us sex was because of our follen nature. Even though God commanded Adam and Eve to populate the earth in Genisus before the fall.

Trust me.  I grew up around them. They're beliefs are radically different even though they claim to have the same Bible. (And a Book of Mormon suplement.)

I do know some Mormans who I truly believe found Christ in spite of the convolutedness of mormonism.  (God will reveal himself to anybody who searches for Him.)  But for the most part, it's a cult.
Tracy

Mormon = Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Adam and Eve were sterile?  I have never heard that before.
Tracy I think you are blinded by your own brand of Christianity.  I have seen people not let their kids play with Mormon kids because they were a 'cult'.  I guess I just don't see how the Mormons are bad.

They believe numerous things that are directly contradicted in the Bible.

The bible contradicts itself:
Eye for an Eye?
Turn the other cheek

They say it doesn't matter how Jesus died

They think he died on the cross. Isn't that what the rest of the Christians believe? (Hell even I believe that). The hard part is this:
He rose 2 days later.  They believe that too.

Mind you I belong to no church but I find it unreal that all the different sects (or cults) prey on each other saying that they are the 'true' church.  Hey sounds like the fight between CD followers and politcos.  Everyone is fighting for freedom but disagree.

[Kat Kanning]

It's funny to look in on threads you haven't been reading and find that they have absolutely nothing to do with the original post.

[Dreepa]

I know, it's hard to draw a distinction when you haven't been brought up believing in Christianity (I'm assuming this is the case based on your questions), but it is there.

I grew up Catholic.  I was an altar boy.  (My priest was the diddler from MA).  I just find it strange that Catholics aren't considered Christian.  In 8th grade I stopped going to church (as early as my mother would let me).
For the record I am married to a Mormon.  I have seen groups protest against the Mormon and could never figure it out.  I don't agree with everything the Mormons do but... they are family orientated, help the poor and volunteer alot, they promoted helping within the church first BEFORE going to the government.  I heard someone once say.. yeah but they believe in a lot of crazy shit besides the Bible.... May I remind people that the Bible is full of crazy shit.
Burning bushes,
Parting water
Walking on water
Changing water into wine
raising the dead.
That is a lot of crazy shit.

[Thespis]

I just find it strange that Catholics aren't considered Christian.

So do I, and I was brought up Southern Baptist. Anyway, I was just telling you why many Christians don't believe Mormons are Christians. Personally, it doesn't matter to me what anyone believes, to each his own.

[Dreepa]

I just find it strange that Catholics aren't considered Christian.

So do I, and I was brought up Southern Baptist. Anyway, I was just telling you why many Christians don't believe Mormons are Christians. Personally, it doesn't matter to me what anyone believes, to each his own.

Yeah I agree with you.... Also I think it is funny when they say... but they believe in 'this'  as if 'this' thing is  crazy and the WHOLE concept isn't.

[CNHT]

Maybe the East Coast is different.   But both Idaho and the midwest I'm not aware of many demoninations that believe that particular Calvenist Docteran.

The Catholics hold fast to the theory of transubstantiation (that a priest says a blessing and the host becomes the literal body and the wine becomes the literal blood), and there are a lot of Catholics in the Northeast.

yeah, specially those BC grads...hehehe

[Dreepa]

Mormon -- Fastest growing 'sect' of Christianity

Nope Just found out that Mormons do NOT believe that it becomes the body of Jesus.

My bad.

[tracysaboe]

Tracy the Mormons believe 100% in the Old and New Testaments.  That sounds pretty Christian to me.

You don't need to quote their retoric to me. I grew up with them all around me.

They even say that the Bible is Superior to the Book of Morman if there's a contradiction.

But when pressed the Book of Morman is what they really believe. They believe numerous things that are directly contradicted in the Bible. They say it doesn't matter how Jesus died. Even though the whole point of his death was to fullfill all the prophesy of the old testement (which they say they also believe.)

They believe they themselves will be elevated to God Hood -- which is really the same hubris sin lucifer had -- to be like God.

They believe that Adam and Eve were steril and that the only reason got gave us sex was because of our follen nature. Even though God commanded Adam and Eve to populate the earth in Genisus before the fall.

Trust me.  I grew up around them. They're beliefs are radically different even though they claim to have the same Bible. (And a Book of Mormon suplement.)

I do know some Mormans who I truly believe found Christ in spite of the convolutedness of mormonism.  (God will reveal himself to anybody who searches for Him.)  But for the most part, it's a cult.
Tracy

Mormon = Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Adam and Eve were sterile?  I have never heard that before.
Tracy I think you are blinded by your own brand of Christianity.  I have seen people not let their kids play with Mormon kids because they were a 'cult'.  I guess I just don't see how the Mormons are bad.

They believe numerous things that are directly contradicted in the Bible.

The bible contradicts itself:
Eye for an Eye?
Turn the other cheek

They say it doesn't matter how Jesus died

They think he died on the cross. Isn't that what the rest of the Christians believe? (Hell even I believe that). The hard part is this:
He rose 2 days later.  They believe that too.

Mind you I belong to no church but I find it unreal that all the different sects (or cults) prey on each other saying that they are the 'true' church.  Hey sounds like the fight between CD followers and politcos.  Everyone is fighting for freedom but disagree.

Oh I spent plenty of time with them. My parents weren't "afraid" of letting me spend time with them.  I had numerous friends who were mormons.  I had many numerous religious discussions with said Mormon friends.  I even went to an LDS service once.  I even played the violin in Handel's Messia sponsored by the LDS in their building.  (They have an excellent business model. They never need to pay archetects or blueprinters because all of their chuhrches have exactly the same layout. -- at least most of the ones I've been in.) I also like the fact that they Practice Church law in the manor which Paul teaches in the letters. If they have problems with each other -- they go before the Church instead of civil courts. Catholics used to do this to an extent. It's something Mainstream Christian Churches need to get back into because Paul says you shouldn't go before a secular judge.  The Christian church could also learn from them and actually go out preaching in two. (For the record when I was with the Lutheran Brothern demonination I did some of my own sharing going out and sharing the great commission to help build that church. But we always believed that if they had another Christian church that they regularly attended, then that was fine.)

I'm definitely not BLINDED. My parents never would have forced me not to play with other kids because of their religion. They believed they raised me right, and if I had questions about things I'd talk to them about it.

I remember when I was 4 (or 5) having an argument with a next-door neighbor who was LDS (well, technically 3 doors down.) about Adam and Eve. I said god made us out of the dust of the earth. And they said that wasn't true because when it rained then we'd turn into mud. But then I said God breathed into that his breath of life. Etc. So I was around them all my life, and even a part of their culture. My violent teacher in my later years was LDS, and she had even loaned my mom a copy of the book of mormon, and I read it.  But it was so contradictry to everything in the Bible.

That's why it's debatable to me to call them Christian or not. They're not just a different Demonination like Baptists vs Prespertyrians vs. Lutherans, vs Nazarines, vs Methodists, vs. etc. 

They are so far out that they really are a different religion. 

And it's not even about the Polygamy thing. That's actually one of the more sensable policies of their religion. The husband has to get permission from his wife before he's allowed to have a 2nd wife. And then he has to get permssion from both in order to have a 3rd wife. etc. And it was really only during the MExican/American war that it was practices so husbands could more easily take care of women who's husbands had died in battle. And it really not clear to me -- in a throughal reading of scripture, that polygamy is that wrong.

You have to realize that the Eye for an Eye thing was a step in the right direction. Before that came out people believed in unlimited retaliation -- instead of making things even.

Later on the Doctoran of ignoring the things your enemies did to you came out. This was during the Prophets. And later when Jesus was here he talked about Forgiving your enemies and those who wronged you. We don't need the more "fair" Mosaic Law anymore because now Jesus was the ultimate sacrafise able to forgive us our sins.  So Forgiveness is something that a victum can do. (Well, they always could -- but Jesus now encouraged it.)

Talk to ANY mormon.  (At least any of the ones I conversed with that were in the LDS or Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints which they call themselves the entire time I was growing up.) And yes. They believe Sex is a result of the fall. Jesus is the brother of Satan.  That we will because gods to on our own planet just like Jesus because a god here. That the Golden Tablets were taken up so we can't see original manuscripts anymore (how convenient. At least we have ancient copies of both Old and New testements. Even whole books sometimes.) Etc. See the Morman "add ons" (and Deletions -- though they wouldn't admit it.) to Christianity are asked to be accepted as Blind faith. And that's really not what Christianity is about. Its about faith yes -- but not blind faith. And their are actual archeological, paypyrological, and historical evidences for everything that happened in the Old and New Testements.  But the Mormon's take pride in the fact that the book of mormon is complete divine knowlege with no physical evedence what so ever to support it.  It's a huge distinction in my book.

Everything I've said are things which they've told me they believed.

And if you'll notice, I did say that I do know some who I believe are genuine Christians who've found Jesus in spite of the convolutedness of the Mormon religioun.

God will reveal himself to anyone who searches for him. I firmly believe that Jesus revealed himself to the Native american's here. (Anybody here read "Black Elk Speaks.) There's evidence that the Sioux Nation actually practiced a version of Christianity before our missionaries from Europe even got here. So no, it's not that I have a closed mind about things. (It's very possible that Jesus revealed himself in the Americas {like the Mormon's believe}. But there's so much more that's completely wrong.) I do have a rational mind however -- and the Mormonism just doesn't cut it in my mind.

Are Mormon's Christians? 

I'll leave that up to the True God to decide. We'll all find out soon enough.

Tracy

[Dreepa]

I remember when I was 4 (or 5) having an argument with a next-door neighbor who was LDS (well, technically 3 doors down.) about Adam and Eve. I said god made us out of the dust of the earth. And they said that wasn't true because when it rained then we'd turn into mud. But then I said God breathed into that his breath of life. Etc. So I was around them all my life, and even a part of their culture. My violent teacher in my later years was LDS, and she had even loaned my mom a copy of the book of mormon, and I read it. 

1. So a conversation you had with a another kid when you were a kid... oh that must make it so.
2.  Why do you have a violent teacher?

It sounds to me like you are using the same stories I have been told again and again about the LDS people.  I have heard all those stories.  I think that they are just that.. stories.  I have not been able to provide evidence of these stories.
Regarding polygamy it was stopped in 1890.  It is the past.   Remember the 'regular Christians/Jews' used to do it too.

Who the fuck would want more than one wife?

[tracysaboe]

2.  Why do you have a violent teacher?

Violin. Sorry. My bad.

These stories all come my personal experience.  It's simply in responce to the accusation that I didn't know them and didn't play with them. The adam and Eve mud thing didn't just involve us. It involved both sets of parents as well. but they still let us play together. My parents weren't that controlling. That's the only point of that story.

And if you'll read my post -- you'll notice that Polygamy isn't one of their beliefs I have problems with.

[Dreepa]

I know you said that you didn't have a problem with polygamy... but all the stories that I hear:

Mormons can't drink Coke (Not true)
They don't believe in Jesus (Not true)
They don't believe in God (Not true)
They worship Joseph Smith (Not true)
They don't believe in the Bible (Not true)
etc etc

I don't care what people think of the Mormons but the FACTS are needed.

Just when people post things about 9/11 and KBCraig posts something that refutes it.  People want to believe what they want to believe.

Having said that  they are just as crazy as other 'Christians'.

[Pat K]

"Who the fuck would want more than one wife?"


Some folks might enjoy bitching in stereo. 

[Kat Kanning]

Maybe they'd fight with each other and leave you alone.

[tracysaboe]

I know you said that you didn't have a problem with polygamy... but all the stories that I hear:

Mormons can't drink Coke (Not true)
They don't believe in Jesus (Not true)
They don't believe in God (Not true)
They worship Joseph Smith (Not true)
They don't believe in the Bible (Not true)
etc etc

Point to me ONE place where I have said any of those things.  I said they claim to believe the old and new testements. But when pressed the beliefs of the book of Morman take precedence. And I haven't remotely said any of the other things you've stated.

All you need to do -- is read the book of Mormon. And then go to their semenary that all high school age LDS students go to.  For a year or too. And you'll find a lot of dirastic differences, that don't mesh at all with basic Christian tenents.

Anyway, I had absolutely no intention of turning this into a serious theological discussion. I was just goofing around about the Easter bunny.

Tracy

[Thespis]

Anyway, I had absolutely no intention of turning this into a serious theological discussion.

Neither did I, then I suddenly found myself doing a treatise on Christianity.