Welcome to the Grafton News Site

[Lex]

"our tax money" hmmm

Not implying I don't pay my taxes are you? cuz I certainly do.

There are millions of people in America who don't pay income taxes in one fashion or another.

[morningowl]

I am sorry to hear that.

I guess I am not included with your "our" .... maybe some day you can join "us".

I guess I don't really understand your point....sorry. I don't feel like ending up like the Brown's....I feel their stance is valid, but there are other ways to go about fighting the system. Violence is not the right answer. The Iraq war should be proof enough of that.

[morningowl]

Right now I don't...I have dialup through work if needed, but I am a techie and am online at work all of the time. There is Wild Blue satellite, but is initially pretty expensive to buy the equipment. Until I have desperate need, I will remain disconnected in Grafton. I like it that way.

I signed up last year, equipment and installation was free. I'm on Rt 4 in Grafton, you've probably seen my Wild Blue dish while driving down Rt 4.

Well, it appears 'free'. I spoke with Wild Blue a few weeks ago and there are two options, fork out $600 and Internet access is considerably less per month, or pay a bit more and 'rent' the equipment. I cannot recall the exact prices, but it was still a bit steep for my wallet at this point in time.

Does it work well for you? Did you go through Dish or NHEC?

[Russell Kanning]

I am sorry to hear that.

I guess I am not included with your "our" .... maybe some day you can join "us".

I guess I don't really understand your point....sorry. I don't feel like ending up like the Brown's....I feel their stance is valid, but there are other ways to go about fighting the system. Violence is not the right answer. The Iraq war should be proof enough of that.

My point is that they are not your taxes if you don't pay them. Then you don't have to worry about what they are spent on.
You pay because you are afraid .... the feds abuse the Browns to scare people like you.
What ways would you fight the system? If it works they will punish you for it. If it is ineffective they will invite you to "fight" them that way.
When did I advocate you use violence like the Iraq war?
I am advocating that you stop cooperating with those that use violence.
Your taxes kill children in Iraq.

[Lex]

I don't feel like ending up like the Brown's....

Keep in mind that the Browns sued the IRS first, they also tried to hide the fact that they were not paying taxes. Russell and many others simply do not pay and go about their daily business.

I feel their stance is valid, but there are other ways to go about fighting the system. Violence is not the right answer. The Iraq war should be proof enough of that.

This forum does not promote violence but does promotes non-violent non-compliance. Heck, the PTB don't even like politics talk on here ;-)

[Lex]

Well, it appears 'free'. I spoke with Wild Blue a few weeks ago and there are two options, fork out $600 and Internet access is considerably less per month, or pay a bit more and 'rent' the equipment. I cannot recall the exact prices, but it was still a bit steep for my wallet at this point in time.

That's not free, they are offering to lease it to you. I guess I got mine through a promotion last year, which they are probably no longer running.

Does it work well for you? Did you go through Dish or NHEC?

Depends on what you do, SSH or any low latency software is pretty much unuseable (even dialup is better for low latency stuff). In terms of bandwidth I can't complain, definitely beats dialup. So if you're just browsing the web and downloading large files sat. internet is great, if you mainly want to do lots of SSH/VOIP then forget about it.

Also, I heard that Verizon is offering DSL in Grafton as of very recently. You might want to look into that as well.

[Lex]

Interesting:

In addition, a recently released Tax Foundation study revealed that 60 percent of American households are now net consumers of government spending. That is, a significant majority now receive more in government spending than they pay in taxes. In all, over $1 trillion is redistributed from the top 40 percent to the bottom 60 percent.

It is no wonder people feel the tax code is unfair. The ones paying most of the taxes see little for their return.

While some may applaud the fact that millions of low-and middle-income families pay no income taxes, there is a threat to the fabric of our democracy when so many Americans are not only disconnected from the costs of government but are net consumers of government services. The conditions are ripe for social conflict if these voters begin to demand more government benefits because they know others will bear the costs.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/press/show/22335.html

Haha, this is my 1911th post. Maybe it's time to get a 1911.

[morningowl]

Also, I heard that Verizon is offering DSL in Grafton as of very recently. You might want to look into that as well.

I just tried Verizon (I try every couple of months) and to no avail, they still offer nothing. Also, Verizon is on its way out for Internet access, some other company is taking over...cannot recall the name.

[Lex]

Also, I heard that Verizon is offering DSL in Grafton as of very recently. You might want to look into that as well.

I just tried Verizon (I try every couple of months) and to no avail, they still offer nothing. Also, Verizon is on its way out for Internet access, some other company is taking over...cannot recall the name.

In that case, the nice thing about satellite is that if you ever plan on being off the grid it's a perfect high speed internet solution for off the grid living. Also, when the powerlines go down I still have internet access (untill my UPS runs out of juice...) :-D

[morningowl]

I am sorry to hear that.

I guess I am not included with your "our" .... maybe some day you can join "us".

I guess I don't really understand your point....sorry. I don't feel like ending up like the Brown's....I feel their stance is valid, but there are other ways to go about fighting the system. Violence is not the right answer. The Iraq war should be proof enough of that.

My point is that they are not your taxes if you don't pay them. Then you don't have to worry about what they are spent on.
You pay because you are afraid .... the feds abuse the Browns to scare people like you.
What ways would you fight the system? If it works they will punish you for it. If it is ineffective they will invite you to "fight" them that way.
When did I advocate you use violence like the Iraq war?
I am advocating that you stop cooperating with those that use violence.
Your taxes kill children in Iraq.

I was using the war as an example, the Browns are using violence as their alternative. If the feds go in to get them, they prefer death, implying they will shoot feds before letting them carry them off to jail. The government/IRS are the objects of their issues, not the folks trying to apprehend them. Those in Plainfield right now are just attempting to do their jobs. If the Brown's kill one federal officer, that officer may also have children who will then grow up without a father. The Browns continually insinuate violence with their armory of weapons. I disagree with that tactic.

So if I wanted to actively "NOT Pay Taxes", how do I just do that? There is not a 1040/1040EZ that gives me an option to say, I am not paying taxes. I am interested in this as some argue it can be done.

I pay out a good $5000/year in property/income taxes combined and I can certainly find better places to spend that income.

And, yes, I am scared to not pay. If they take me to jail, my daughter does not have a father. I don't believe in or carry a gun for any reason, so I haven't got anything that would keep them from taking me away.

I also do look at taxes in the perspective that our roads are well maintained, the school my daughter attends is dependent on those taxes, the fire department who responded when my mother-in-law's house was on fire. I see that my taxes go toward things that are necessary parts of society today. I do not agree with my taxes being spent on the war, I don't like to read about people dying everyday over there. I tend to lobby for my taxes being spent here in the US to improve services, get the uneducated-educated, help the poor get a new start. The welfare system needs serious revamping, the rich thieves in corporations are getting away with their greed, while those of us in middle to low income families fight to keep their electricity on every month and find a way to make sure those on welfare are attempting to fix their income issue rather than rely on the system and sit back and enjoy the beach.

[Dreepa]

Also, I heard that Verizon is offering DSL in Grafton as of very recently. You might want to look into that as well.

I just tried Verizon (I try every couple of months) and to no avail, they still offer nothing. Also, Verizon is on its way out for Internet access, some other company is taking over...cannot recall the name.

Fairpoint is the name of the company trying to take over part of Verizon.

[Lex]

I was using the war as an example, the Browns are using violence as their alternative. If the feds go in to get them, they prefer death, implying they will shoot feds before letting them carry them off to jail. The government/IRS are the objects of their issues, not the folks trying to apprehend them. Those in Plainfield right now are just attempting to do their jobs. If the Brown's kill one federal officer, that officer may also have children who will then grow up without a father. The Browns continually insinuate violence with their armory of weapons. I disagree with that tactic.

Since this is a non-violent non-cooperation forum you will find lots of people disagreeing with the Browns stance on violence. But is it still right for the Feds to go in and kill the Browns?

So if I wanted to actively "NOT Pay Taxes", how do I just do that? There is not a 1040/1040EZ that gives me an option to say, I am not paying taxes. I am interested in this as some argue it can be done.

Some options (all of which are done, believe it or not):

1. Don't pay taxes and every year write a letter to the IRS telling them so.
2. File a false tax return claiming you don't owe anything.
3. File a true tax return but don't pay.
4. Do 1, 2 or 3 and also sue the IRS.
5. Employ some very complicated legal construct that supposadly makes you legally exempt from taxes.

I'm of the opinion that if you aren't going to pay taxes then you should do it honestly: don't file, don't pay and keep your mouth shut but also don't try different schemes to avoid detection. Such schemes will only bring more attention to you, eg, The Browns.

I pay out a good $5000/year in property/income taxes combined and I can certainly find better places to spend that income.

Just, FYI, the Browns pay their property taxes. The only do not pay the federal income tax.

And, yes, I am scared to not pay. If they take me to jail, my daughter does not have a father.

I still pay my income taxes for the same reason. But as history has shown rule through fear doesn't last very long.

I don't believe in or carry a gun for any reason, so I haven't got anything that would keep them from taking me away.

You do realize that you live in probably one of the most heavily armed towns in NH, right?

And on the subject of guns in Grafton, check out some Youtube videos of Graftons very own MoneyDollars:

guncam v.0.0.2
Money Dollars Gun Cam
Money Dollars vs. Soda Bottles
Money Dollars vs. Watermelon

I also do look at taxes in the perspective that our roads are well maintained,

Roads are maintained through property taxes.

the school my daughter attends is dependent on those taxes,

You can home school your kids as many families in Grafton do or pay for your own education. It's not fair to expect all the folks with no kids or who homeschool their kids to pay for your kids education. The homeschoolers in fact have to pay twice, for your kids education and at the same time for our own.

the fire department who responded when my mother-in-law's house was on fire.

Again, paid for by property taxes. Also, Grafton fire department is volunteer. I don't get paid for responding to calls.

I see that my taxes go toward things that are necessary parts of society today. I do not agree with my taxes being spent on the war, I don't like to read about people dying everyday over there. I tend to lobby for my taxes being spent here in the US to improve services, get the uneducated-educated, help the poor get a new start. The welfare system needs serious revamping, the rich thieves in corporations are getting away with their greed, while those of us in middle to low income families fight to keep their electricity on every month and find a way to make sure those on welfare are attempting to fix their income issue rather than rely on the system and sit back and enjoy the beach.

Don't you think it would be fair if we decided which projects we wanted to donate to? That way those who wanted education can voluntarily pay the education taxes, those who want to go to war could pay the war taxes, and those who want to give out money to poor people can do so and those of us who don't agree with government education or war can not pay those taxes. That makes the most sense to me. Let people vote with their dollars like we do on products in the market place. If nobody donates money to government schools then maybe they suck and more people will send kids to private school or home school them

[morningowl]

The Brown's did not pay their property taxes this year. I would love to be able to choose where my tax money goes...that actually would be a great incentive for folks to pay in. I am not an advocate of home schooling. Yes, I know Grafton is heavily armed...not something that bothers me. I just don't use guns....so what?

[Lex]

The Brown's did not pay their property taxes this year.

Under the circumstances I can understand them not paying it this year. They aren't using the roads, the police protection they would be paying for isn't there. They can't leave their property to enjoy what their property taxes would be paying for, so why should they pay this year? They've paid it in previous years when they weren't stuck in their home.

[Lex]

I am not an advocate of home schooling.

But you are perfectly fine with advocating violence against those who do not want to pay for government schools?