about the control-free movement (controlfree.net)

[tracysaboe]

He created us and therefore owns us and can do with us what he sees fit. The creator is the owner -- that's anarchocapitalist doctrine word for word.

Let me see if I understand this...... christian anarchocapitalists don't believe in self ownership?

Correct. We only believe government doesn't own us. And libertarianism, ulitmately, is about reducing or abolishing the agressive governments of men.
Tracy

[tracysaboe]

Also, "market anarchism"... don't know. I think the less property, the better.

The only way you could have a situation like that is if you granted some group of thugs the permission to steal and plunder and kill.

I suppose to each his own.

Tracy

[indeedpossible]

Also, "market anarchism"... don't know. I think the less property, the better.

The only way you could have a situation like that is if you granted some group of thugs the permission to steal and plunder and kill.

I suppose to each his own.

Tracy

Thugs? No.. just the redistribution of all wealth and property. And as for the "libertarian" thing, let's go for complete abolition, as reform within the system will never work.

nf1

[tracysaboe]

The only way to "redistribute money and property" is to STEAL.

The only way to steal is to kick the current homesteaders off the property with force. Guys with GUNS! That's what government is.

Now, I supose if you condone stealing then that's different, but you're no libertarian.

That's agression. That's thugery. Gangsterism. Force. Whatever you want to call it.

Tracy

PS. Maybe my Washington quote hasn't outlived it's usefullness.
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." --George Washington

[Michael Fisher]

The only way to "redistribute money and property" is to STEAL.

No, no, no. You don't understand anarcho-socialist doctrine!

Okay, there will be an anarchy and... no government... and, umm.. everything will magically redistribute itself evenly among all people!

Didn't you know that spontaneo-magical redistribution of wealth will naturally occur in the absence of government?

[Money Dollars]

Christian anarchocapitalists don't believe in self-ownership, so you can't steal from them. They don't own anything.

Ever heard of Robin Hood?

[Michael Fisher]

Christian anarchocapitalists don't believe in self-ownership, so you can't steal from them. They don't own anything.

We are commanded to give freely to anyone who asks, to refuse no one, and to borrow money even to our enemies without expecting anything in return. We are also commanded to repeatedly forgive violations of ZAP without exception. These guidelines are all entirely Biblical, regardless of the beliefs of the modern Christian movement. It's not about doing good deeds to win our way into heaven, it's about keeping our hearts in heaven.

[Money Dollars]

These guidelines are all entirely Biblical

That is the problem. What version of the bible?

I don't like all the paul crap in the bible. Modern Christianity should be called Paulinity.

[Lex]

So... what makes a Christian-Anarcho-Capitalist a Capitalist and an Anarchist? It would seem to me that all you are is a Christian and neither an Anarchist or a Capitalist. You are not an Anarchist because God is your supreme power. You are not a Capitalist because you object to property. All that's left is Christianity.

[tracysaboe]

Christian anarchocapitalists don't believe in self-ownership, so you can't steal from them. They don't own anything.

Ever heard of Robin Hood?

Christian anarchocapitalists don't believe in self-ownership, so you can't steal from them. They don't own anything.

Ever heard of Robin Hood?

The original story of Robin hood was of him stealing from the tax collectors and government -- the original theives -- and trying to give the money back to their rightfull owners.

The story of Robin Hood got perverted by socialists later into this mythical fairtale of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor.

Tracy

[tracysaboe]

So... what makes a Christian-Anarcho-Capitalist a Capitalist and an Anarchist? It would seem to me that all you are is a Christian and neither an Anarchist or a Capitalist. You are not an Anarchist because God is your supreme power. You are not a Capitalist because you object to property. All that's left is Christianity.

Actually my right to own property is not dependent on whether I own myself. It's codified in the Bible. Though Shalt Not Steal!

Hence I believe in Private property and capitalism. And I'm still and anarchist because Jesus gives us free will and I choose to follow Him and give my life over to Him. Nothing coersive about it.

Tracy

[Money Dollars]

I understand Jesus and his philosophy. It was the same as Rabbi Hillel, a guy who lived at the same time as jesus.

http://www.jewfaq.org/sages.htm
"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Go and study it." -Rabbi Hillel

I don't understand the modern bible and christians. They don't follow the teaching of jesus.

[indeedpossible]

Ever heard of Robin Hood?
............
The original story of Robin hood was of him stealing from the tax collectors and government -- the original theives -- and trying to give the money back to their rightfull owners.

The story of Robin Hood got perverted by socialists later into this mythical fairtale of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor.

Tracy

Hm perhaps. But either way, isn't it fabulous? Hah. Thank you for reminding me another movie I have to show to my unborn child.

See, this is the problem with labels. "Christians", "anarchists", "socialists"... and on and on, forever. It creates rifts in thought and keeps us forever divided.

I like ideas from a lot of camps (anarchist - get rid of the system that exists) - but those who assume that an anarchist is by default a socialist, I disagree, because I would not want to replace one system with another, as "socialists" desire.

And as for Christianity. If we're going to talk about years worth of dogma, I'd like to point out that the Golden Rule is good by me - it makes sense, as do some other ideas - not killing for NO REASON perhaps.

But what "Christians" LOVE to overlook is that there are so many conflicting "rules" and/or "guidelines".. are all people to be loved, or just the heterosexual ones? How about the brutal murder, laviscious sex and otherwise in the Bible, inbreeding, oh I could go on. I'll just post up a document:

http://www.overlookedcreations.com/archive/mikhail_bakunin/god_and_the_state.pdf

and there are a bunch of other documents that point out a whole bunch of weirdness about certain biblical things.

And for those who aren't fundamentalists - how much of the Bible to believe? It's just TOO MUCH. How about some other kinds of guidelines, ones that make more sense and are possibly more closely linked to current reality? Why can't we have a shifting set of ideas instead of one freaking ancient book.

Sorry, I rant. My family are Christians, and it's all good. The whole mentality gets in the way of what I see as common sense sometimes, though.

Much love
nf1

[tracysaboe]

I don't know of anywhere in the Bible where we're taught to hate homosexuals.

The Bible says it's an immoral lifestyle. However we're all sinners, so it's really not our place to Judge. That's God's job. Love the sinner but hate the sin.

And the reason you hate the sin is because it's self destructive compaired to other alternatives. We're here to help our fellow man, and if our brother is destroying himself through drunkeness, debauchery, sexual addiction, being-on-message-boards-to-much-to-the-point-of-allienating-one's-family, etc. we should try to stear him on a better way of life. The same way Jesus sat and taught the prostitutes, tax collectors, thieves, and other sinners.

Tracy

[David]

I don't like all the paul crap in the bible. Modern Christianity should be called Paulinity.
[/quote]
I don't understand the modern bible and christians. They don't follow the teaching of jesus.

Agreed Money Dollars
Glad I'm not the only one who sees the difference between Paul and Jesus.