Vegans - B12

[bailey228]

Dont become a vegan, it's a complete sham.

That has always been my and my wifes opinion but we're starting to turn around. I'm still completely open minded so if you can provide some things to backup the claim that humans are supposed to be carnivors/omnivors I will be very interested.

Speak for yourself bubba  I do not believe veganism/vegitarianism is healthy. Your diet will be too low in fat which can cause depression and a host of other psychological problems. Your brain needs fat to function. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20030429-000002.html
http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.asp?Id=2805
http://www.emmadavies.net/content/blog/nice/amino-acid-trips.aspx

[Kat Kanning]

Hmm.. olive oil, corn oil, canola oil, avacado, flax seed, nuts of all kinds....all vegetarian and all high in fat.

[bailey228]

Hmm.. olive oil, corn oil, canola oil, avacado, flax seed, nuts of all kinds....all vegetarian and all high in fat.

Most of those contain high quantities of polyunsaturated fat.
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html#poly

[Lex]

That has always been my and my wifes opinion but we're starting to turn around. I'm still completely open minded so if you can provide some things to backup the claim that humans are supposed to be carnivors/omnivors I will be very interested.

Speak for yourself bubba  I do not believe veganism/vegitarianism is healthy. Your diet will be too low in fat which can cause depression and a host of other psychological problems. Your brain needs fat to function.

I would be perfectly fine eating meat more often if you do all the feeding, slaughtering and cleaning up of the animals 

Plants seem a lot easier to take care of and a lot less messy when it comes time to eat them... I realize that some meat can be helpful in a diet especially during the winter months when the supply of vegetables is low to non-existant and that is a perfect time to supplement with meat. Other than that I just don't see the need to constantly be eating meat.

I am now convinced that a person can probably survive on either a mostly vegetable diet or on a mostly meat diet (Eskimos) as long as they get most of the required nutrients or their body can adapt to be without that nutrient. So it becomes an issue of convenience, sustainability and locality.

Plants are simpler to grow and harvest as opposed to animals which would require constant attention, cleanup, water, food and heat. I was present at a rabbit slaughter once and while it was done as humanely as I can only imagine it was still not as easy as picking a tomato.

[dalebert]

Most of those contain high quantities of polyunsaturated fat.
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html#poly

That does it. I'm going str8 to the kitchen to cook me up some egg in a basket with lots of butter!

I think I'd be vegetarian or darn close to it if I had to slaughter them myself. That guy raising rabbits over his worms is smart though. I love that kind of ingenuity. What we really need are small nutritious animals that, rather than being really fluffy and cute, are really ugly and annoying. Then it would be easier to kill them.

The professor that taught my health class in college asked us once what would be the best food to eat if you could only eat one thing for the rest of your life. Know what it was? People! You have to eat everything of course to get all the nutrients you need; not just muscle tissue. I guess it would be a violation of the ZAP though. hehe. Well, unless you wait for them to die naturally first as some cultures do.

I guess I'd make do with fluffy cute animals first.

[Money Dollars]

The other issue we're currently mulling over is one MD brought up before, what to do during winter?

Think canning and drying....

You grow enough to support yourself untill the next harvest....and some extra...

[Money Dollars]

I used to be in track, and I had running mates on my team that were vegitarians. They were constantly getting sick and they got injured more easily it seemed.

Now maybe they were just pansies too. But I think it had more to do with their anti-meat, and therefore anti-protean diet.

I used to be in the army, and the first PT test my platoon had in basic training, I scored the highest. It was pretty sad, cus I didn't do much exercising before I went into the army, and some of the other kids just got out of highschool and played sports...I started to lose weight because I didn't have much of anything to eat during basic training, but it was only 2 months so it wasn't a big deal...by the end of basic training I could ace the running test....I could do 2 mile run in less than 12 mins....

[Money Dollars]

Vegetarianism did... veganism is less than a century old, as a movement, it really got started with Peta.

Peta started in 1980......The Vegan Society started in 1944.

I don't think Peta start pushing vegan stuff until sometime in the late 90's

[Money Dollars]

I do not believe veganism/vegitarianism is healthy.

But you think consuming dairy products is  ???

Forget meat.....consuming dairy is just strange....

[bailey228]

I do not believe veganism/vegitarianism is healthy.

But you think consuming dairy products is  ???

Forget meat.....consuming dairy is just strange....

Well I do agree with the nourishing traditions type diet, so I guess we're on opposite sides of what we think is healthy, and really no one way is right for everyone. I agree with you partly though, I don't think pasteurized/homoginized dairy that the majority consumes is healthy at all.

[d_goddard]

I've been a vegetarian for about 15 years now.
I'd be vegan (or largely vegan) if it were a lot easier around here.
Anyway, for B-12, IMO the tasty and healthy way to go is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_yeast

[Lex]

I've been a vegetarian for about 15 years now.
I'd be vegan (or largely vegan) if it were a lot easier around here.
Anyway, for B-12, IMO the tasty and healthy way to go is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_yeast

And how do you make it at home?

[Money Dollars]

I've been a vegetarian for about 15 years now.

Are you one of those fish and chicken eating vegetarians?

I'd be vegan (or largely vegan) if it were a lot easier around here.

WTF are you talking about?

Anyway, for B-12, IMO the tasty and healthy way to go is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_yeast

Umm, only some has b-12, and that is because it is fortified.
did you even read the wikipedia article?

Some brands of nutritional yeast, though not all, are fortified with vitamin B12, which is produced separately from bacteria.

I've been vegan for about 12 years, and have never paid any attention to b12. So much crap is fortified with it. It seems like most foods that are fortified have b12.

If you are going to worry about b12, you can just stock up on a supplement...I've got some, but I have never taken them.


8000% and 16000% of what you need daily


People have been making tempeh for hundreds of years. It has b12.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=201508

The influence of some fermentation parameters on vitamin B12 formation by strains of Citrobacter freundii and Klebsiella pneumoniae isolated from Indonesian tempeh samples during tempeh fermentation was investigated. A decrease in fermentation temperature from 32 to 24 degrees C led to a decrease in vitamin B12 formation. Inoculation of soybeans with different numbers of cells of C. freundii at the beginning of solid-substrate fermentation showed that only the velocity of vitamin formation and not the final amount of vitamin formed depended on the number of cells. The addition of cobalt and 5,6-dimethylbenzimidazole increased the vitamin B12 content of tempeh. Nevertheless, levels of incorporation of the two precursors into the vitamin B12 molecule were very low. Neither C. freundii nor K. pneumoniae possessed the genes encoding the enterotoxins Shiga-like toxin SLT IIA, heat-labile enterotoxin LT Ih, and heat-stable enterotoxin ST Ih, as indicated by PCR. This result supports the suggested use of these two strains to form vitamin B12 during tempeh fermentation in Indonesia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempeh

Tempeh begins with whole soybeans, which are softened by soaking and dehulled, then partly cooked. Specialty tempehs may be made from other types of beans, wheat, or may include a mixture of beans and whole grains.

A mild acidulent, usually vinegar, may be added and a culture containing the spores of fungus Rhizopus oligosporus is then mixed in. The beans are spread into a thin layer and are allowed to ferment for approximately 24 hours at a temperature around 30?C (86?F). In good tempeh, the beans are knit together by a mat of white mycelia.

Under conditions of lower temperature, or higher ventilation, gray or black patches of spores may form on the surface -- this is not harmful, and should not affect the flavor or quality of the tempeh. This sporulation is normal on fully mature tempeh. A mild ammonia smell may accompany good tempeh as it ferments, but it should not be overpowering. In Indonesia, ripe tempeh (two or more days old) is considered a delicacy.

[Money Dollars]

Well I do agree with the nourishing traditions type diet,

I don't know what that is.

I agree with you partly though, I don't think pasteurized/homoginized dairy that the majority consumes is healthy at all.

It's all nasty, unless you are a baby cow.

[livefreeNHgirl]

I'm new around here. My first post. I am very disheartened at the attitudes I see here. I am a very healthy vegan (almost, see below). I happen to believe that enslaving, torturing and killing animals to please our taste (or fashion sense for that matter) is horrifyingly wrong. I also believe we should be nurturing our environment, not crapping all over it in any way we choose. I am also a independent-minded Libertarian who does not blindly follow any person, organization, religion or doctrine.

So, I am not a commie, nor an environmentalist wacko. My beliefs of treating animals and the Earth with kindness are perfectly aligned with my Libertarian beliefs. They are not only an expression of my compassion, but are very logical ways to live in my opinion.

My motto is "Live your life the way you want without bringing harm to others". I include animals in "others". I also believe harming the Earth harms humans and animals.

I find it outrageous that someone who wants to live life with a minimal impact on the earth and on animals would be insulted by calling it a "sham".

(BTW, PETA does promote a vegan lifestyle, but the dead-cow industry promotes its own "cause" - http://www.beefitswhatsfordinner.com/ - and GEE, I am pretty sure they are in it for the money, no?)

Anyway, to answer the question about B12, I have the perfect solution for self-sufficient living...raise chickens for eggs! (Please treat them well, and let them live a normal life). I am a "vegan" who eats locally raised organic free-range eggs. (No harm being done.) I know your reasons for wanting to be vegan may differ from mine, but it is still a great solution for you. No need for a freezer, just happy fresh-egg-laying-chickens to provide you with all the B12 you need! And none of that pesky blood on your hands.