Free Town Project revisited

[tracysaboe]

Dude: Kevin, buddy.

At least he's trying to attract people to NH now instead of splitting the effort by going to the west or Belize.

I want freedom in my lifetime -- not freedom in the lifetime of my nonexistent kids, grandchildren. That's what further concentration is all about.

If their were a network of 3 or 4 small free town projects, it would do allot toward fostering undergroun economies, freedom insurences, etc. Not that scatterploting is bad. But we need both.

I also think MAx is right. Perhaps instead of focusing on Manchester directly, people interested in moving their, should perhaps focus their efforts of a suburb around Manchester.

I don't know enough about the region to help out with that obviously, but perhaps local free state friendlies who are interested in us moving in to help them out wouldn't mind trying to compete and convince us where to go. Or perhas free staters in the area would have recomendations.

Tracy

Tracy

[Fluff and Stuff]

I say Tilton.  It has less than 4,000 people, is urban, low taxes, low housing costs, pretty free, everything you would expect in a city of 30,000 including a wal-mart/mall/discount shopping club/home depot/and lots more, right on the interstate, and is less than 15 min. to Concord, Laconia, the lakes, the races, beaches...

[maxxoccupancy]

>At least he's trying to attract people to NH now instead of splitting the effort by going to the west or Belize.

I asked for no further discussion of a western free state vote.  This is a volatile issue because people could not understand the need for it... no matter how many times I explained the issue.  After covering the numbers and showing repeatedly that a wfsp vote would INCREASE the number of people moving to nh, I kept having people angrily complaining that this would "split our efforts."

If you choose to badmouth the western fsp, I am willing to reopen this can of worms, but nothing productive will come of it.

--Max
pissed off again

[KBCraig]

I don't understand your post.  I'm not suggesting any of those things.

I apologize for not expressing myself more clearly.

I wasn't replying to you in specific, just to the general notion that there needs to be a "Free Anything" more concentrated than a "Free State". We've got the state selected, and things are well on track to make a difference in NH. There is no need to be more concentrated on the sub-state level.

If all those Free Staters who've already moved, and all our in-state Friends, agreed to move to one single town, then there's no doubt we could control that town. We could control the state rep from that district. And we would have absolutely zero say on anything else, anywhere else in the state.

Concentration into a "free town" is no different than gerrymandering a district. When U.S. Representative districts were based on population centers instead of demographics, candidates had to appeal to all in that district. Racial minorities were important, because they were often the swing vote.

Nowadays, we have congressional districts, which often look like a drunken snake crawled across the map, carefully drafted to ensure that this group or that is "represented", meaning they're the majority and will probably elect someone with a similar shade of melanin.

Result? Candidates outside those "minority majority" districts can ignore minorities. The "minority rep" gets elected, but holds no sway. No one needs him except his own constituency.

It's more important to scatter people throughout the state, so that every district has some vocal, active people involved in the process. Nothing wrong with concentration on a small scale, but don't turn it into another FTP.

Kevin

[Kat Kanning]

Don't forget about the hundreds of activists who've settled in Winchester.

[Transition Force]

I just remembered that I lost the "which state" debate ... so maybe I will go down in flames in this one too.
It won't matter, we are having too much fun in Keene. I wouldn't want to leave.

which state did you vote for?


(some part of me is guessing montana)

[Russell Kanning]

WY of coarse. It was the obvious choice.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Now that we have been in state for about three years, and have seen a lot more of the state, it may be worthwhile to reexamine the free town project idea... ie, voting on a town somewhere in NH that is very liveable, but is small enough to be affected by our efforts.

There are about two dozen freestaters in Manchester.  With a population of 109,000, we have made only a slight dent here.  If we could find a town of less than 20,000, we might be able to have a greater impact, there.  It would be nice to prove some of these libertarian policies, but it would also be nice to live without housing codes or high property taxes.

Perhaps we should start looking at viable towns and talk to people in those towns... do the research the way we did with the FSP vote.  That might help us get some area with the one activist per 100 population goal that we originally had with the FSP.

Any ideas?

Max

Aren't you leaving the country?

[Lloyd Danforth]

We've got the Free State nailed.

Why worry about the Free Town? If you're going that route, you might as well focus on the Free Ward.

People will move where they can find a job and afford to live. Narrowing further isn't just pointless; it feeds anxiety about whether to move to NH at all.

Don't baby people. Encourage them, but don't try to create Utopia for them. We don't want people who seek to move to Utopia; we want those who will do their best to create it.

Kevin

Kevin, Max is just tying to start some shit.  Next week he might claim he is moving to Timbuktoo.  We can only pray.

[Kat Kanning]

I thought Max was being nice.

[tracysaboe]

I thought Max was being nice.

Me too.

Tracy

[FTL_Ian]

Monadnock should be the free region, as Keene will be the hub of the nonviolent revolution.  Free Talk Live will be arriving this Summer.  Our arrival will just signal more people to move to the Keene area.

[maxxoccupancy]

We've got the Free State nailed.

Why worry about the Free Town? If you're going that route, you might as well focus on the Free Ward.

People will move where they can find a job and afford to live. Narrowing further isn't just pointless; it feeds anxiety about whether to move to NH at all.

Don't baby people. Encourage them, but don't try to create Utopia for them. We don't want people who seek to move to Utopia; we want those who will do their best to create it.

Kevin

Kevin, Max is just tying to start some shit.  Next week he might claim he is moving to Timbuktoo.  We can only pray.

Fuck you.  This is the kind of BS that is driving people out of the FSP.  I was considering leaving it a few months ago, or just ignoring the whole project.  Several other people have been (the politically active ones) sending me messages or telling me that they're ready to leave, too.  How long before people start leaving the state.

Those who work to make the state freer have a right to say what they want.  Those who do nothing but give people a hard time are interfering with the work that real activists are doing.

Put up or shut up.

--Max

[Lex]

Fuck you.  This is the kind of BS that is driving people out of the FSP.  I was considering leaving it a few months ago, or just ignoring the whole project.  Several other people have been (the politically active ones) sending me messages or telling me that they're ready to leave, too.  How long before people start leaving the state.

Those who work to make the state freer have a right to say what they want.  Those who do nothing but give people a hard time are interfering with the work that real activists are doing.

Put up or shut up.

I don't know how familiar you are with the Free Town Project idea but it's been tried and it stirred up a lot of shit. It follows then that if you are trying to start another Free Town Project that you are stirring up shit. I don't see how Lloyds observation was inaccurate. In your original post you had not provided what you thought had gone wrong in the previous FTP attempt and what you were going to do differently to make it a success. So it is not surprising that a lot of people are calling you out on it and showing contempt.

Also, this is not the FSP forum so if you want to threaten to leave the FSP to get some sympathy I don't think you will be very successful here. Many here are not happy with the FSP as an org.

[CNHT]

Monadnock should be the free region, as Keene will be the hub of the nonviolent revolution.  Free Talk Live will be arriving this Summer.  Our arrival will just signal more people to move to the Keene area.

I think while Max's intentions are good, that most people probably have to consider where they have to work to dictate where to live. After all, who wants to commute long distances? Other than that, if they are free to live anywhere, they might choose something close to Concord if they plan to work within the system such as I do, or not worry about being near Concord if they don't plan to become political.

I don't care where people choose as long as they contribute in some way.

Having said that I want to thank Max for being one of the few people to offer his help to me and I am very appreciative of that.