"Professor's 9/11 theories outrage NH leaders"

[John]

Not knowing about the physics, I was/am willing to take the story that the fuel burned hot enough to bring down #s 1 & 2 from their centers.  However as far as I know, # 7 was never hit and it fell in the same way.

I don't pretend to know the answers.  However I do see troubleing questions.
Can anyone tellme about # 7 ?

[Caleb]

John, I find that a LOT of people who start asking questions about 9/11 do so because of building 7.  Here is a link to a website that is pretty much devoted to that one issue.  The owner of the site is very cautious about what he claims, and in fact spends a lot of time debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories that are not supported by the evidence.  I have found his sites to be very articulate and helpful.

Caleb

PS ... I forgot to include the link.  Here it is: http://wtc7.net/

[FTL_Ian]

The problem with the conspiracy crowd is that some don't seem to know when to stop.

Their discussions range from interesting and useful facts and questions (analysis of the destruction, WTC7, etc) to fucking whackaloon supposition (control pods on the bottom of planes, the planes firing missles, celphone calls were faked, planes were swapped etc).

Questions should be asked, and it's all very interesting, but I still say it's all an exercise in futility.  The fact is, government got bigger, regardless of who was behind the attacks.  THAT's what we have to deal with.  He who spends hours researching 9/11 could be spending that time recruiting new people to the Liberty movement.

[John]

I'm more of a John Birtcher Conspiracy theorist. (Right wign conspiracy theorist.)

Government new about it. Did nothing to stop it, because it came in handy as a way to increase it's power.

I miss reading The New American and have been thinking of getting it again.
I think that some of their stuff is far too "religious" for me, but there is no dought in my mind that they keep an eye on the NWO boys (& girls) better than anyone.

[tracysaboe]

I agree with Ian.

The lesson on 9/11 is that weather through incompetence or conspiracy (and most likely a measure of both.) the government failed in it's basic duty: To protect the lives of people and property from agression by other people.

Abolish government. It's proven it's useless.

Tracy

[tracysaboe]

I'm more of a John Birtcher Conspiracy theorist. (Right wign conspiracy theorist.)

Government new about it. Did nothing to stop it, because it came in handy as a way to increase it's power.

I miss reading The New American and have been thinking of getting it again.
I think that some of their stuff is far too "religious" for me, but there is no dought in my mind that they keep an eye on the NWO boys (& girls) better than anyone.

Word 

I only read the free articles in their e-mail updates. I take them with a grain of salt. But it's some thing I'd subscribe to if I had the money. I'd rather send that sort of money to the Liberty Scholarship Fund.

Tracy

[Caleb]

Ian,

9/11 was, primarily, a psychological operation designed to make an impact on the American psyche to prepare them for giving up essential liberties.  To combat the psychological effect, it is often very useful to show the person how they have been lied to.

I have seen MANY, MANY people who have broken through the left/right paradigm because they came to believe that 9/11 was a government operation.

It is possible to work for liberty by exposing the truth of 9/11, provided it is done properly.  Too many 9/11 truth sites fail to give someone something they can *do* about it ...

Caleb

[John]

. . . the government failed in it's basic duty: To protect the lives of people and property from agression by other people.

Tracy, you strike right at the thought I tried to bring to others back in 01.

[FTL_Ian]

Caleb, what you're talking about is a tricky job.  I've found it's much easier to convert someone to Liberty based on a tangible issue they feel strongly about.  There are many who will not even begin to consider 9/11 from another perspective.  For them, even bringing it up can be a bridge burner.

Also, I agree that the "truth" movement is pathetic about spreading their message.  All they say is, "Spread the word!".  As a result the truthers go out and show videos to their friends.  In response, they likely lose a few who might have come over to Liberty eventually, had they instead led with a discussion of issues their friend cared about.

Of course, that's another problem with the truthers.  They aren't principled, Pro-Liberty people.  All they are is people who have rejected the official story.  They aren't Liberty advocates, they are just 9/11 truthers.  Many are rabid anti-immigration zealots to boot.  Recruiting people to the Liberty movement with 9/11 truth is a poor choice.

Once you've led with issues they care about and they have converted to Liberty, at that point presenting 9/11 truth stuff is much less of a risk.

[KBCraig]

Not knowing about the physics, I was/am willing to take the story that the fuel burned hot enough to bring down #s 1 & 2 from their centers.  However as far as I know, # 7 was never hit and it fell in the same way.

I don't pretend to know the answers.  However I do see troubleing questions.
Can anyone tellme about # 7 ?

Here's a good page.

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg3.html

Edit: and another one.

http://www.debunking911.com/WTC7.htm

WTC 7 was heavily damaged by the falling towers. An entire front corner was taken out, and fires burned inside for hours. It was visibly sagging and buckling, and the fire department declared it too precarious to enter. They evacuated the area, knowing it would eventually collapse, and it did, hours later.

Kevin

[John]

Thanks for the links guys.

[tracysaboe]

Many are rabid anti-immigration zealots to boot.

Either that or communists. the leftist conspiracy theorists are usually communists, and the right-wing conspiracy theorists are usually some form of national socialist/anti-immigration philosophy.

At least in my personal experience.

Tracy

[KBCraig]

I certainly don't know Prof. Woodward. But it sounds like he sought 9/11 "facts" the same way he sought a religion: something that lined up with his previous conclusions. He wants to be a "good global citizen", and cites unanswered questions as evidence.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Anti-war+ideals+inspire+UNH+prof&articleId=27d45b1c-0454-4372-8f91-378882a82790

Anti-war ideals inspire UNH professor

By SCOTT BROOKS
Union Leader Staff

Professor William Woodward describes the politics of his youth as "middle of the road."

Woodward says he grew up a "mainstream" Protestant in a Republican household. He was not, he said, a born protester. When some Vietnam War opponents in his generation burned their draft cards or fled to Canada, Woodward chose instead to join the Peace Corps.

Like President Bush, however, Woodward says his eyes were opened on Sept. 11.

"After 2001," he said, "I recognized what I thought was a government conspiracy, and so I became more active in upholding the truth and seeking the truth."

A tenured psychology professor at the University of New Hampshire, Woodward has drawn criticism for his theory that the U.S. government may have orchestrated the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Sen. Judd Gregg called Woodward's view "generally an affront to the sensibility of most all Americans," and Gov. John Lynch called on the University System Board of Trustees to review his qualifications.

Woodward says he understands his theory can be upsetting.

"It's terribly frightening to come to believe that the government would be complicit," he said in an interview yesterday. "But I have studied the evidence and that is my conclusion. I encourage others to read books on the subject."

Having reviewed Woodward's personnel file this week, University Provost Bruce Mallory described the professor as a highly credentialed and successful teacher. Woodward, he noted, holds degrees from Harvard, Princeton and Yale universities. He has been teaching psychology at UNH since 1975, rising along the way from a faculty assistant to a full-time, tenured professor.

His record includes prestigious honors. In the 1980s, Mallory said, Woodward received grants from the National Endowment for the Humanities and was a Fulbright lecturer. He participated in several international conferences, including one in East Germany.

"He's been a successful faculty member, and we've never had any reason to think otherwise," Mallory said.

At Princeton, Woodward found a mentor in Julian Jaynes, a psychologist best known for his 1976 work, "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind." Jaynes opposed war and was jailed for being a conscientious objector during World War II, according to Woodward, who considers himself the "world authority" on Jaynes.

In the 1990s, Woodward took an interest in the Quakers, a religious group that advocates pacifism. He joined the Dover Society of Friends, a local Quaker organization, in 2002, he said.

The following February, Woodward rode with other Seacoast peace activists to New York City, where thousands of anti-war demonstrators protested the military campaign the U.S. would soon launch in Iraq. Woodward later wrote of brandishing a sign with a message for Hans Blix, the United Nations diplomat charged with searching Iraq for weapons of mass destruction.

"Blix," his sign read. "No W.M.D.s. What now?"

This past May, Woodward was one of six anti-war protesters arrested for refusing to leave Rep. Jeb Bradley's congressional office in Dover.

"It was his first civil disobedience action," said Anne Miller, director of New Hampshire Peace Action, which organized the protest. "He feels very strongly that U.S. troops need to be coming home out of Iraq and was willing to put his body where his head is, really willing to walk the walk and act on his beliefs."

At the time, Woodward told reporters the protest was a "last resort effort" to convey his message to the government.

"One thing I remember him saying was that he has a tremendous amount of privilege being a white man in American society, and middle class," Miller said. "And that it was time to act on that privilege."

Woodward is a member of the Seacoast 9-11 Questions Committee. David Diamond, also a member, said the group has a mailing list of 93 people, but just seven or eight members who attend meetings.

The committee maintains a list of 24 "unanswered questions" about Sept. 11. It is now finalizing plans to march on Portsmouth's Market Square on the fifth anniversary of the attacks. The group will also hold a candlelight vigil in memory of the people who died that day and in the wars that have followed. Woodward will give a speech.

"We mourn the victims. We feel grief for the families," Woodward said. "We're not anti-American. We're pro-American. Pro-peace. But we also feel we want to be global citizens and respect all human rights."

[KBCraig]

"Zack Bazzi"... Zack Bass? 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NH_PROFESSOR_SEPT_11_NHOL-?SITE=NHMAL&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Aug 29, 4:05 PM EDT

UNH prof says he doesn't impose his Sept. 11 opinions on students

By KATHARINE WEBSTER
Associated Press Writer

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) -- A University of New Hampshire professor who thinks government officials orchestrated the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks said he doesn't impose his opinions on students, but teaches them to discuss and debate differing viewpoints.

"I try not to push a certain view," psychology professor William Woodward said Tuesday from Durham, as he faced a growing chorus of criticism - and some support. "But at the same time, I might put it out there because it's important to be a role model for having an opinion but not pushing it on other people."

Woodward belongs to Scholars for 9/11 Truth, whose members believe that Bush administration officials either planned the attacks or knew about them and allowed them to happen in order to get public opinion behind their policies.

After extensive research and hearings, the bipartisan 9/11 Commission said the federal government communicated poorly and missed opportunities that might have prevented the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. But the commission expressed no doubt that the bombings were planned and carried out by al-Qaida operatives under the leadership of Osama bin Laden.

Gov. John Lynch called Woodward's beliefs "completely crazy and offensive" on Monday, a day after the New Hampshire Sunday News reported Woodward's beliefs and harsh criticism of him and the university by numerous political figures.

Lynch has asked the university system's trustees, which he led before becoming governor two years ago, to investigate Woodward's teaching practices.

"Although academic freedom is important, if a UNH professor is promoting that view, it reflects a reckless disregard of the facts and raises questions as to why this professor would be teaching at the university," said Lynch's spokeswoman, Pamela Walsh.

One of the tenured professor's students is National Guard Staff Sgt. Zack Bazzi, an Iraq War veteran who strongly disagrees with Woodward about blame for the attacks. He defended Woodward's right to encourage provocative classroom discussion, however.

Bazzi said Woodward frequently shares "different versions of different events in history," but said he is careful about how he does it, acknowledging that his own opinions often are controversial, then moving on.

"He certainly doesn't try to indoctrinate the kids," Bazzi said. "He just puts it out there," Bazzi told the Sunday News.

As far as Bazzi remembers, no member of the class agreed with Woodward's theory of the attacks.

University officials including Andy Lietz, chairman of the system trustees, and interim UNH President Bonnie Newman strongly disagreed with Woodward, but defended his rights of free speech and association. Lietz said he has asked university administrators to review Woodward's classroom remarks.

Newman said terrorists perpetrated the attacks "to destroy the United States of America, the freedoms we enjoy and the principles that guide our democracy." But she said freedom of speech is one of those principles.

Woodward said the goal of his political psychology seminar is teaching the responsibilities of citizenship - including forming and articulating political opinions - through thoughtful debate and writing. There are no examinations and no right or wrong opinions, he said.

"It's being blown way out of proportion. It's a minor part of what I teach, and all of my teaching encourages students to practice thinking for themselves," he said.

Criticism from politicians raises important questions about academic freedom, he said.

"Are we going to continue to have tenure and protection of free speech, or are we going to have politicians deciding what is acceptable to teach our children?" he asked. Woodward earned his undergraduate degree at Harvard, his master's in psychology at Princeton and his doctorate in the history of science at Yale.

---

On the Net:

Scholars for 9/11 Truth: http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/

9-11 Commission Report: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html

Debunking Conspiracy Theories: http://www.debunking911.com/

[FTL_Ian]

Here's a good page.

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg3.html

Wow.  That was really entertaining.  I'm up entirely too late because of it!