"Professor's 9/11 theories outrage NH leaders"

[maineiac]

It always amazes me that people persist in thinking, despite all evidence to the contrary, that government bureaucrats are capable of pulling something like this off.

The reason they are "pulling it off" is because people are letting them get away with it by not taking a hard look at the evidence, demanding further investigation by an independent party, and getting answers.

Authorities apparently still investigating the murder of JonBenet Ramsey.

But 911? They had that investigation wrapped up in a few short days.

Any dufus government can fly a plane into a building.

It takes a few hundred million dufus "citizens" to swallow the tremendous amount of lies they are being fed about it.

Great post!

I think the government involvement will eventually become commonly accepted knowledge, say in about 20 years.

[livefreeNHgirl]

These ideas are very powerful, and when you expose people to them, often you get somewhere with them.  People aren't stupid.  Unfortunately, the media has done a terrible job of reporting and instead spews propaganda.  People are starting to wake up, and they are willing to listen.  I talk about 9/11 all the time, and find very few people who attack me because of it.  Most of those who do attack me are on this forum. 

I'm with you, Caleb. The events of 911 and the resulting cover-up have resulted in me turning to Libertarianism because I have learned so much about how crazy an out-of-control government can get.

So, after years of research, reading, soul-searching, I realize I am a Libertarian at heart, although I may not know everything about the party yet. I am still learning.

Part of my education was to join this forum and figure out how to get more inolved in the community of Liberty Lovers. I am moving back to NH in about 2 weeks (moved to ME for a year).

I am very surprised to be now learning that many Libertarians are skeptical of the 911 skeptics and BELIEVE the government's version? Is that what I am reading here?

I would have thought that Libertarians would be leading the 911 Truth Movement.

How can anyone read this web site: http://911research.wtc7.net/ (thoroughly, following all of the links) and NOT be at least SKEPTICAL of the government and demand more investigation??

Now, lest anyone think I am following the truth movement like a sheep, be it known that I am skeptical of all information being fed to me, no matter where it comes from. So, I do lots of varied research from many sources, and I absolutely now know that our government was complicit with 911. I do not of course know EVERYTHING there is to know, and no one ever will.

But the web site I refer you to is a good comprehensive overview of the situation.

The US government murdered 3000 of its own people. That I know for sure.

[Russell Kanning]

Libertarians talk ..... fighting the guys who killed people on 9/11 is too scary for them.

[tracysaboe]

It always amazes me that people persist in thinking, despite all evidence to the contrary, that government bureaucrats are capable of pulling something like this off.

The reason they are "pulling it off" is because people are letting them get away with it by not taking a hard look at the evidence, demanding further investigation by an independent party, and getting answers.

Authorities apparently still investigating the murder of JonBenet Ramsey.

But 911? They had that investigation wrapped up in a few short days.

Any dufus government can fly a plane into a building.

It takes a few hundred million dufus "citizens" to swallow the tremendous amount of lies they are being fed about it.

Those are good points.

Tracy

[Dreepa]

Article in today's CMonitor about this:
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060903/REPOSITORY/609030357

Their editorial on it:
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060831/REPOSITORY/608310329/1027/OPINION01

and an opinion piece from a lefties who calls out Lynch!

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060903/REPOSITORY/609030354&SearchID=73255757683212

[Caleb]

Here it is, David Ray Griffin's list of things you must believe are coincidences if you accept the official government version of 9/11.  (Note:  my comments are in brackets)

1)   Several FAA flight controllers exhibited extreme incompetence on 9/11, and evidently on that day only.
2)   The officials in charge at both NMCC and NORAD also acted incompetently on 9/11, and evidently on that day only.
3)   In particular, when NMCC-NORAD officials did finally order jet fighters to be scrambled to   protect New York and Washington, they ordered them in each case from more distant bases, rather than from McGuire and Andrews, respectively.
4)   After public statements saying that Andrews Air Force Base had no jet fighters on alert to protect Washington, its website, which had previously said that many jets were always on alert, was altered. [Thus, you must believe that the previous version of the website was in error, although it was the version that had no `official story' to protect.]
5)   Several pilots who normally are airborne and going full speed in under three minutes all took much longer to get up on 9/11.
6)   These same pilots, flying planes capable of going 1500 to 1850 miles per hour, on that day were all evidently able to get their planes to fly only 300 to 700 miles per hour.
7)   The collapse of the buildings of the World Trade Center, besides occurring at almost free-fall speed, exhibited other signs of being controlled demolitions: molten steel, seismic shocks, and fine dust were all produced.
   The video and physical evidence suggesting that controlled demolition was the cause of the collapse of the Twin Towers co-exists with testimony from people in these buildings that they heard, felt, and saw the effects of explosions.
9)   The collapse of WTC-1 and WTC-2 had some of the same features as the collapse of WTC-7, even though the latter collapse could not be attributed to the impact and jet fuel of an airplane.
10)   Both the North Tower and the South Tower collapsed just as their respective fires were dying down, even though this meant that the South Tower, which had been hit second, collapsed first.
11)   Governmental agencies had the debris, including the steel, from the collapsed WTC buildings removed without investigation, which is what would be expected if the government wanted to prevent evidence of explosives from being discovered.
12)   Physical evidence suggesting that what hit the Pentagon could not have been a Boeing 757 co-exists with testimony of several witnesses that the aircraft that did hit the Pentagon was far smaller than a 757
13)   This evidence about the aircraft that hit the Pentagon co-exists with reports that Flight 77 crashed in Kentucky or Ohio.
14)   This evidence co-exists with the fact that the only evidence that Flight 77 did not crash was supplied by an attorney closely associated with the Bush Administration.
15)   Evidence that Flight 77 did not return to Washington co-exists with the fact that when the flight control transcript was released, the final 20 minutes were missing.
16)   The fact that the aircraft that hit the Pentagon did so only after executing a very difficult maneuver co-exists with the fact that it struck a section of the Pentagon that, besides containing none of its leaders, was the section in which the strike would cause the least death and destruction.
17)   On the same day in which jet fighters were unable to protect the Pentagon from an attack by a single airplane, the missiles that normally protect the Pentagon also failed to do so.
18)   Sounds from cell phones inside Flight 93 suggesting that the plane had been hit by a missile were matched by many reports to this effect from witnesses on the ground.
19)   This evidence that Flight 93 was shot down co-exists with reports from both civilian and military leaders that there was intent to shoot this flight down.
20)   The only plane that was evidently shot down, Flight 93, was the only one in which it appeared that passengers were going to gain control.
21)   The evidence that Flight 93 was shot down after the passengers were about to gain control co-exists with the fact that the flight control transcript for this flight was not released.
22)   That coincidence co-exists with the fact that when the cockpit recording of Flight 93 was released, the final three minutes were missing.
23)   Evidence showing the US government had far more specific evidence of what was to occur on 9/11 than it has admitted co-exists with evidence that it actively blocked investigations that might have prevented the attacks.
24)   Reports of obstructions from FBI agents in Minneapolis co-exist with similar reports from Chicago and New York.
25)   Reports of such obstructions prior to 9/11 co-exist with reports that investigations after 9/11 were also obstructed
26)   These reports of obstructionism co-exist with multiple reports suggesting that the US government did not really try to capture or kill Osama bin Laden either prior to or after 9/11, with the result that several people independently suggested that the US government must be working for bin Laden-or vice versa.
27)   All these reports co-exist with reports of hijackers being allowed in the country in spite of known terrorist connections or visa violations.
28)   These reports about immigration violations co-exist with evidence that some of these men were allowed to train at US flight schools, some on military bases. [Italics mine]
29)   This evidence of training at various American flight schools co-exists with reports that US officials tried to conceal this evidence.
30)   The traumatic events of 9/11 occurred just a year after a document published by the Project for the New American Century, an organization whose founders included several men who became central figures in the Bush Administration, referred to benefits that could come from ?a new Pearl Harbor.?
31)   The ?unifying Pearl Harbor sort of purple American fury? produced by the 9/11 attacks did benefit the Bush administration in many ways.
32)   A credible report that spokespersons for the Bush Administration had earlier announced that the US government was planning a war on Afghanistan, which would begin before the middle of October, co-exists  with the fact that the attacks of 9/11, by occurring on that date, gave US military forces time to be ready to attack Afghanistan on October 7.
33)   Ahmad Masood, whose continued existence would have posed problems for US plans in Afghanistan, was assassinated, reportedly by ISI operatives, just after the head of the ISI, General Mahmoud Ahmad, had been meeting in Washington for several days with the head of the CIA.
34)   In the White House's version of the recording of Condoleezza Rice's press briefing on May 16, the only portion that was inaudible was the portion in which the person under discussion, mentioned as having been in Washington on 9/11, was identified as ?the ISI chief.?
35)   Evidence of official efforts to conceal General Ahmad's presence in Washington co-exists with evidence that, after it became known that General Ahmad had ordered $100,000 wired to Mohamed Atta, US leaders exerted pressure on the ISI to dismiss him from his post quietly.
36)   Evidence of these attempts to conceal General Ahmad's involvement in 9/11 co-exists with evidence that the FBI and other federal agencies sought to obscure the fact that Saeed Sheikh, the man who wired the money to Atta, was an ISI agent.
37)   The fact that agents in FBI headquarters who presided over the alleged intelligence failure that allowed 9/11 to happen, widely called the biggest intelligence failure since Pearl Harbor, were promoted instead of fired or otherwise punished co-exists with the fact that other intelligence agencies also reported that there had been no punishments for incompetence related to 9/11.
38)   This evidence of lack of punishment for poor performance co-exists with reports that intelligence officers who were diligently trying to pursue investigations related to 9/11 suffered negative treatment from superiors....

But the coincidence theory requires even greater credulity.  To accept it requires holding not only that each conjunction of events on the above list-which a conspiracy theory could explain by regarding each one as a pattern of events that had been planned-was purely coincidental.  It also requires holding that the fact that there are so many events related to 9/11 that involve coincidences-at least 38 such events-is itself purely coincidental.

Seen in this light, the fact that a complicity theory may not at this time be able to answer all the questions it evokes, revisionists can say, is a relatively trivial problem.  Once the relevant facts are put before us, the official account involves a coincidence theory that would require far greater credulity than that of which `conspiracy theorists' are accused.?

[Atlas]

Libertarians talk ..... fighting the guys who killed people on 9/11 is too scary for them.

Relating to the FTL crowd, I hear yah. Not that they're scared but just too ignorant or just don't care. Isn't justice a virtue anymore?

[Walk For Liberty]

Libertarians talk ..... fighting the guys who killed people on 9/11 is too scary for them.

Relating to the FTL crowd, I hear yah. Not that they're scared but just too ignorant or just don't care. Isn't justice a virtue anymore?

Their point is that we're trying to reduce the size of government.  Whether or not the feds were involved doesn't matter though -- how does that change what we're ultimately trying to do?

[Russell Kanning]

I think it still matters. We should get rid of the whole thing so that they can't use part of it to kill people.

[Walk For Liberty]

I think it still matters. We should get rid of the whole thing so that they can't use part of it to kill people.

Get rid of the whole government?  I couldn't agree with you more!

[tracysaboe]

or just don't care.

We have a winner.

Tracy

[CNHT]

Ian,

9/11 was, primarily, a psychological operation designed to make an impact on the American psyche to prepare them for giving up essential liberties.  To combat the psychological effect, it is often very useful to show the person how they have been lied to.

I have seen MANY, MANY people who have broken through the left/right paradigm because they came to believe that 9/11 was a government operation.

It is possible to work for liberty by exposing the truth of 9/11, provided it is done properly.  Too many 9/11 truth sites fail to give someone something they can *do* about it ...

Caleb

Sort of like the Reichstag theory?

[Kat Kanning]

UNH backs prof with controversial views on Sept. 11

AP | September 13 2006

DURHAM, N.H. --A University of New Hampshire professor presents his controversial views on the Sept. 11 attacks responsibly, so they are not grounds for any action against him, the trustees have concluded.

Andy Lietz, chairman of the university system trustees, said a "careful review" of psychology Professor William Woodward found his teaching consistent with accepted standards, "even though he has expressed some ideas that many find objectionable."

Leitz commented in a Sept. 6 letter to a conservative watchdog group, the American Council of Trustees and Alumni, which had called for an investigation.

Woodward, a tenured professor, belongs to Scholars for 9/11 Truth, whose members believe that Bush administration officials either planned the attacks or knew about them and allowed them to happen in order to get public opinion behind their policies.

Gov. John Lynch called Woodward's beliefs "completely crazy and offensive" and also asked the trustees to investigate.

In July, the council praised the University of Wisconsin for investigating professor Kevin Barrett, who also belongs to Scholars for 9/11 Truth. Barrett kept his job and is teaching a course on Islam this fall.

Last week, Brigham Young University in Utah placed physics professor Steven Jones, another group member, on paid leave while it investigates statements he made about 9/11.

Woodward has said he sometimes expresses his own points of view in class to stimulate debate and teach his students how to think critically.

Anne Neal is president of the Washington-based council.

"We do not actively support professors who teach Holocaust denial or flat Earth," Neal said Tuesday. "And certainly conspiracy theories of this sort should not be viewed any differently."

Lietz said the review included student and peer reviews of Woodward's teaching and a routine post-tenure review of him from 2004.

The council has criticized colleges and universities that it believes have abused the responsibility that it says goes along with academic freedom. In May, it issued a report deploring the proliferation of "politically extreme opinions" on U.S. campuses.

[tracysaboe]

What's the governer doing telling people to "investigate" the professures theories. The only people demanding that, should be the professures bosses and the Universities customers (e.g. students, and parents of said students.)

Tracy

[FrankChodorov]

What's the governer doing telling people to "investigate" the professures theories. The only people demanding that, should be the professures bosses and the Universities customers (e.g. students, and parents of said students.)

he use to be chairman of the board at UNH (a publicly funded university)