Private Roads

[David]

I'm trying to do some research on roads.  I believe in the feasability of private roads, but only if the gov't competition is out of the picturc.  Why?  The same way public libraries put most private libraries out of business.  If something is free to the user, it becomes very hard for a private concern to earn a living. 
That will not change for roads, other than toll roads, which I don't see as being very common due to their unpopularity.  You may ask how is it going to happen then?  After all, people are charitable, but not that charitable.  I would agree. 
Roads will be built due to neccessity.  Look in any neighborhood.  In any large housing development there are potentially a couple of miles of roads.  They were built out of obvious neccessity.  Grab a map, or look up any city on mapquest.  Notice all the dead ends and all the loopy loops that don't really go anywhere? 
Hallways and bathrooms, neither of which are rented out because no one will pay for them, are built by the developer as a value added necessity.  He then earns his bread by renting the office, store, room, ect.  In a completely private city the one thing that will not be their is gov't.  Nothing in this world can be built or sold without some way to get to the location.  Accessability is a highly desired selling point as any real estate agent will be sure to mention.  The most likely way for roads to be built, is for a developer to build them on his own property, than link them with the roads of his near neighbors. 
Think of each property as a chain.  Any property is wothless if there is no way to get to it.  Every real estate agent and developer should know this. 
You may ask-But what if they won't let people on their private property?  The number one responce is it is rarely cost effective to control who gets on your property unless their is a compelling reason.  Compelling reasons may include, chemical plants, gated communities, ect.  I cannot seriously imagine that homebuilders, offices, malls shopping centers, ect would try to police its potential customers.  Historically the biggest example of it actually happening is on a race basis.  But the answer was the civil rights movement.  In Dr. Kings own writtings he stated that it was surprizingly easy to get businessed to capitulate on their reasonable demands, it was gov't that was harder to influence. 
What would these private roads look like?  Provably not much different than today.  The difference will be fewer roads to nowhere, and shorter straighter roads.  Remember, accessability is a very strong selling point.  There will be fewer highways, and those will likely be toll.  The speeds will be slower.  And everything will be more compact.  The suburban flight didn't really start, untill it became easy to get into the city.  Those roads were built by various gov't agencies, particularly the highways.  In the absence of gov't there will be less suburban flight.  In many poverty stricken countries where there is a gov't, but it is largely broken, and corrupt, and ineffective, the flow of people is into the cities, not out.
In the US, the gov't has always been involved in road building to some degree or another.  Modern well built roads are only cost effective in large population areas, which is why even in areas of slim gov't there are few of them, because there are few people.  People equal demand, and competitive supply. 

[Braddogg]

I'm trying to do some research on roads.  I believe in the feasability of private roads, but only if the gov't competition is out of the picturc.  Why?  The same way public libraries put most private libraries out of business.  If something is free to the user, it becomes very hard for a private concern to earn a living. 
That will not change for roads, other than toll roads, which I don't see as being very common due to their unpopularity.  You may ask how is it going to happen then?  After all, people are charitable, but not that charitable.  I would agree. 
Roads will be built due to neccessity.  Look in any neighborhood.  In any large housing development there are potentially a couple of miles of roads.  They were built out of obvious neccessity. 

My only useful comment with the roads question, and forgive me if I sound like a broken record, is to take a look at the Maine Turnpike, which is a completely user-fee-funded, publicly operated road.  Also, there appear to be a few highways in Canada that compete somewhat successfully against the free roads.  And, in California, I hear, there are alternative private highways.  Just some very, very broad places to start 

[maineiac]

I'm trying to do some research on roads.  I believe in the feasability of private roads, but only if the gov't competition is out of the picturc.  Why?  The same way public libraries put most private libraries out of business.  If something is free to the user, it becomes very hard for a private concern to earn a living. 
That will not change for roads, other than toll roads, which I don't see as being very common due to their unpopularity.  You may ask how is it going to happen then?  After all, people are charitable, but not that charitable.  I would agree. 
Roads will be built due to neccessity.  Look in any neighborhood.  In any large housing development there are potentially a couple of miles of roads.  They were built out of obvious neccessity. 

My only useful comment with the roads question, and forgive me if I sound like a broken record, is to take a look at the Maine Turnpike, which is a completely user-fee-funded, publicly operated road.  Also, there appear to be a few highways in Canada that compete somewhat successfully against the free roads.  And, in California, I hear, there are alternative private highways.  Just some very, very broad places to start 

Damned few Mainers I know take the Turnpike in lieu of 295, which closely parallels the pike. The only explanation that I can think of is its routing through Lewiston/Auburn, Maine's third largest population center.

Disclaimer- my facts and figures might be incorrect, as I am shooting from the hip as usual.

[David]

Mostly I'm trying to make the case for them.  Roads and primarily the ability is so important to most, that it immediantly is the first objection to no gov't. 

[error]

This town is full of private roads. I use one every day. I think I'm going to wander around with the digital camera tomorrow and take pictures of some of them.

[David]

Private roads are all over the place, but not on a large scale.  And that is routinely brought up by the fence sitters. 

[error]

Private roads are all over the place, but not on a large scale.  And that is routinely brought up by the fence sitters. 

Not yet they aren't. They didn't really start getting built around here in any serious quantity until a couple of decades ago.

But all the private roads I've seen here are getting better maintenance than any of the public roads, and there isn't a tollbooth in sight anywhere!

[Pat McCotter]

Damned few Mainers I know take the Turnpike in lieu of 295, which closely parallels the pike. The only explanation that I can think of is its routing through Lewiston/Auburn, Maine's third largest population center.

Disclaimer- my facts and figures might be incorrect, as I am shooting from the hip as usual.

I always take 295 because it avoids population centers and is 9 miles shorter.

[maineiac]

Damned few Mainers I know take the Turnpike in lieu of 295, which closely parallels the pike. The only explanation that I can think of is its routing through Lewiston/Auburn, Maine's third largest population center.

Disclaimer- my facts and figures might be incorrect, as I am shooting from the hip as usual.

I always take 295 because it avoids population centers and is 9 miles shorter.

. . . and cheaper tolls!

[Dreepa]

So what would you do if someone bought up all the roads in a town and threatened to kill anyone who didn't pay a users fee and treaspassed on them ???

Move to another town?

How many angels fit on the head of a pin?

[error]

So what would you do if someone bought up all the roads in a town and threatened to kill anyone who didn't pay a users fee and treaspassed on them ???

How is this different from what we have now?

[Braddogg]

So what would you do if someone bought up all the roads in a town and threatened to kill anyone who didn't pay a users fee and treaspassed on them ???

How is this different from what we have now?

People who don't pay taxes are allowed to use the roads (the person could ride a bicycle on the road, avoiding the gas tax).

[Braddogg]

So what would you do if someone bought up all the roads in a town and threatened to kill anyone who didn't pay a users fee and treaspassed on them ???

A common question.  It's similar to the episode of the Simpsons, where Mr. Burns makes a machine to blot out the sun unless the people of Springfield do something or other for him.

People don't get rich (in the free market) unless they provide a service.  I work at a convenience store, and I experience this every day: it's the awkward double thank you that happens as the customer and I finish our transaction.  I thank them for giving me the money, and they thank me for giving them the product.  It's a win-win.  Every economic transaction in a free market situation works like this.  If people didn't want the product, they wouldn't shop at my store.  Even when they complain about paying $5 for a 12-pack of Coke, they pay it because they want the Coke more than they want the $2 they could save by taking a 30 minute walk and shopping at the store down the street.

A person in a free market situation does not get rich unless he provides a benefit to other people.

If someone bought all the roads, someone else would build a new road and let people pay to use it.  Economics.

[error]

The other thing that hypothetical question ignores is simple reality. There's always one or two people who will absolutely refuse to sell at any price.

[Braddogg]

"If someone bought all the roads, someone else would build a new road and let people pay to use it."

I don't think answer takes into consideration all aspects. For example, if a company were to buy up all the public roads in Keene and then stated "You can either pay us some large sum of money or we'll shoot you if we catch you on our roads." Some people would be screwed. All the houses in the downtown area are entirely encompassed by the roads, which would make it impossible to leave one's property, well, more like island. This would actually be a good way to take over the city because most people would try to escape in some manner and would allow the company to take over the abandoned property.

Honestly, Do you seriously think this will be a possibility?  Can you point to a historical example of something like this happening?