Dada in Federal Court 7/17 .... leads to 4 days in jail

[EthanAllen]

To put it bluntly people see protesters as nuts.  When you say Dave went to the IRS office to hand out fliers asking them to quit their jobs and he was arrested for it, people don't see that as a first amendment violation of his trying to address his grievances... they simply see it as someone doing something they see as nutty.

Bingo.
Acts of Civ Dis have to be absolute master-strokes of intentional planning and knowing the pulse of the public.

I still hold Mike Fisher's "outlaw manicure" as the perfect act of Civ Dis.
Masterstroke.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Russell Kanning]

1. If you observe yourself being motivated by rage, Civ Dis is the last thing to consider. Effective Civ Dis  seems to require Ghandi-like (if you prefer, Jesus-like) love for the individuals who will persecute you.

I think that is the right way to live all the time. Civ Dis only cranks up the intensity.

[Russell Kanning]

What is it like in jail, BTW? I've been in a holding cell before, but never a real jail. Is it really scary?

The jails I have been have been similar to holding cells. They try to keep everyone separate most of the time (meals, showers, sleep). The 1st night in a holding cell is usually the worst time.

[Russell Kanning]

Me, I'm also in a little different position.  I'm often told that my appearance is rather "intimidating."

I have done some things to bring down the tension level when dealing with cops and such. They seem to get worked up when you stand your ground, especially if you are bigger or just taller than they are. I like sitting down or other things to calm them down. I don't want to scare them. I do want to let them know that most of the time I will not back down.
Yesterday I didn't talk with them and just walked away when they started giving me orders.

[EthanAllen]

so long as the IRS continues to rob me biweekly, I own the goddamn building.

In the system we live under - a constitutional democratic republic - you have delegated authority to make laws that regulate the collectively owned buildings to your elected representatives.

That I cannot stand in the lobby, in a peaceful and nonthreatening manner....is bullshit.

You can in the lobby, as you have a common right of egress to get to the office to conduct the business designated as the purpose of the collectively owned building. You may not block others common right of egress as you can not do it on a sidewalk either. But because a lobby is typically wider than a sidewalk, I have no idea how they would enforce this.

His being there was not a hindrance

The law states that handbills can not be given to employees because it interferes with (hinders) their duties. If it were allowed then you could essentially shut down the duties of the office by continually giving employees handbills so that they could not complete their work. You can hand them handbills on the way out of their office on common property (sidewalks) and may even be able to slip it under a windshield wiper on their car (I have no idea legally whether this is true) if you don't touch the car with your hands.

have the guts to say that you think Dave Ridley got what he deserved.

But that is the point of non-violent, civil disobedience. To willingly and lovingly accept the punishment in order to focus attention on the particular law you are breaking and the larger principle. I believe the income tax laws are morally wrong and that the money pays for torture - which is also morally wrong.

There come s time when I reasonable person has to say "ENOUGH".

I agree and each of us as individuals will subjectively determine where and under what circumstances that point comes.

A person, a human, has the right to step into the lobby of his oppressors and say "Stop oppressing me".

You have that right. Within the buildings designated for that purpose in exercising your first amendment rights to petition your elected officials for redress of grievances. You also have it on collectively owned sidewalks and roads where we all have individual common right of ways that are protected for that purpose.

[Kat Kanning]

If you want my opinion, yes, it's a waste of time to talk to Ethan.  He's a broken record.  I always have him on ignore.

[FTL_Ian]

If you want my opinion, yes, it's a waste of time to talk to Ethan.  He's a broken record.  I always have him on ignore.

It is a waste of time to even read his posts.  I too have him on ignore.

[kola]

yeah richard,romak and ethan are one in the same...their names are on my train to Iggyville.


quote Yesterday I didn't talk with them and just walked away when they started giving me orders.

That is a great way to handle them. Just ignore them and walk away whenever possible. It takes away their power.

Kola

[EthanAllen]

Is it a waste of time to talk to you?

You mean talking at me or discussing issues with me? I am giving you the logic behind the laws based on first principles and precedent. Discussing the issue with means giving reasons as to why my logic is faulty and then I decide whether or not to change my opinion of the facts based on the new knowledge. Talking at me would be saying I am wrong without giving any reasons. Your choice.

[d_goddard]

I just got off Dan's show. His primary concern was that he wanted to be appealing to his audience, which apparently is "light-libertarian"... people who (in his words) "don't trust the government but haven't given it much thought". As such, the discussion about Dave and his protest was liberally sprinkled with indignation about the IRS, the Iraq war, and the terrible state of public schools.

He had me on for about 45 minutes. Discussion was split about equally between Dave's situation, why the Income Tax is the most perverse of all taxes, why the Federal government is worse than State and Local government, and NH politics & the NHLA.

In discussing Dave's protest, I clearly conveyed how polite he is: that he wasn't yelling or blocking peoples' way. Nobody's day was inconvenienced during his protest, except of course for the IRS lady who overreacted, and the law enforcement officers who she called in.

I also mentioned that in just the past 24 hours, more people have performed similar protests, and been handed similar fines for their so-called "crimes"

[lildog]

It's that we're mad about the way the government runs things that people think we're nuts...which only goes to show that the propaganda and brainwashing has been successful.

I heard a great quote on the radio that hit it right on the head.  I'm paraphrasing but basically they said he who controls the knowledge controls the way people view things.

[lildog]

To expand a little on my last post... it isn't so much what is presented in the news that should be questioned but HOW it is presented.  The same story can be told many different ways as I'm sure you all know.

[TackleTheWorld]

Just called Essex correctional facility, Dave's still there.

[Kat Kanning]

Thx for the info, Lauren.

We were thinking we'd show up at Concord around 4:00 with Free Dave signs.

[shyfrog]

Income Tax is unconstitutional, therefore illegal.
In this case the chicken came before the egg.

All arguments supporting laws concerning "right of egress, designated purpose, etc" are completely moot given that they are protecting illegal activities and jobs.

Original intent, Spirit of the law

Get with the Spirit

The sophist spins a marvelous web of truth so lithely with expertise and accuracy, only to throw that subtle, sticky, dark thread of lie in divers places. Entrapping their prey, unaware and unarmed, injected with the numbing poison of consensus and popularity. Move away from that which leads you into a false sense of security and safety.