Dada in Federal Court 7/17 .... leads to 4 days in jail

[penguinsscareme]

charges of petitioning the government for a redress of grievances.

Forgive me for coming late, but is there a statute against petitioning the government for a redress of grievances?

In any case, best to you.

I've been following the Brown case from TCF, courtesy of Shorty Dawkins.

[error]

charges of petitioning the government for a redress of grievances.

Forgive me for coming late, but is there a statute against petitioning the government for a redress of grievances?

I've been told that there's never been a Supreme Court case regarding the First Amendment protection of the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Dada's case could have been such a case, if he'd pursued the appeals process. But it would have cost far more in filing fees (read: bureaucratic payoffs) simply to file the paperwork to begin the appeal than the $125 fine itself!

[David]

I like the idea you had of letting the judge just forget about the fine. Gives them the choice of going after you or not and it does not back them in to a corner. I guess the judge thinks he is above every other person because he wears a funny robe in public. Dada I think that no one can complain about how you handled this interaction with the feds.

Complain?  I can't think of any way for a person to have done it better.     Good Job Dave.  Nonviolent, Pricipled, and outwardly polite. 

We will probably never succeed in repealing most of the gov't laws, and penalties.  The best that may be hoped for is to get the gov't to simply look the other way.  We have our freedom, and they keep their legitamacy to the bulk of the people.  Unfortunatly they have clearly choosen the authoritrian way, to maintain complete control, and to maintain a strong deterence. 

[error]

If they won't keep quiet, then neither should we.

[Dave Ridley]

Regarding the idea of us being outwardly polite; we should be inwardly polite too if possible.  i.e. learn to like the people who are trying to hurt you.  There is usually something to like about everyone.  For instance, Therian (can someone tell me how to spell his name?) has been helpful to some of you guys in terms of making his people behave more politely towards you.

He is also a veteran, so most of us can sincerely thank him for his service.  Proably there are some of you here who don't appreciate it but I do since I'm not one of the peaceniks.

[error]

Col. Michael G. Therrien, USAF (Ret.)

Last assignment: Deputy Commander, 753rd Electronic Systems Group, 653rd Electronic Systems Wing, Electronic Systems Center, Air Force Materiel Command, Hanscom AFB, MA

Biography (MS Word)

[d_goddard]

I've been told that there's never been a Supreme Court case regarding the First Amendment protection of the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Dada's case could have been such a case, if he'd pursued the appeals process.

Dada, I respect any decision you make, but I am compelled to share my opinion, by virtue of my being an insufferable knowitall.

A prime reason Rosa Parks is famous, and that the US government apartheid apparatus was dismantled, was because she sued the government.

I strongly urge you to seek legal counsel.
There are various ways to deal with the fiscal impact of doing so, which I'm happy to discuss in private.

I believe -- strongly believe -- that you have the opportunity to strike at the root of the system that places you in your present uncomfortable situation. Indeed, I believe you do a disservice to all those who worked so hard to create a limited government if you ignore the options available within the legislative and judicial framework. This remains true despite the erosion of those limits over the past 150 years.

[FrankChodorov]

I've been told that there's never been a Supreme Court case regarding the First Amendment protection of the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Dada's case could have been such a case, if he'd pursued the appeals process.

Dada, I respect any decision you make, but I am compelled to share my opinion, by virtue of my being an insufferable knowitall.

A prime reason Rosa Parks is famous, and that the US government apartheid apparatus was dismantled, was because she sued the government.

I strongly urge you to seek legal counsel.
There are various ways to deal with the fiscal impact of doing so, which I'm happy to discuss in private.

I believe -- strongly believe -- that you have the opportunity to strike at the root of the system that places you in your present uncomfortable situation. Indeed, I believe you do a disservice to all those who worked so hard to create a limited government if you ignore the options available within the legislative and judicial framework. This remains true despite the erosion of those limits over the past 150 years.

he really doesn't have a case...you can't disrupt the official business of a collectively owned building by handing out handbills.

freedom of speech, assembly and petitioning for redress of greivances are all individual common rights that people are free to engage in on common right of ways and in collectively owned buildings for that specific purpose.

[Kat Kanning]

 :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

[FrankChodorov]

A prime reason Rosa Parks is famous, and that the US government apartheid apparatus was dismantled, was because she sued the government.

actually what happened is they engaged in a year long bus strike (MLK was asked to lead it) and then when they called it off they just got on the buses and sat wherever they wanted and no one bothered to do anything about it.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Boycott

[slim]

he really doesn't have a case...you can't disrupt the official business of a collectively owned building by handing out handbills.

freedom of speech, assembly and petitioning for redress of greivances are all individual common rights that people are free to engage in on common right of ways and in collectively owned buildings for that specific purpose.

Frank are you a lawyer? or is it just your layperson opinion that Dada does not have a case. Also I thought that I read on another thread that the building was privately owned but the IRS used some office space in the building.

[Kat Kanning]

I think that's the Keene IRS office...they just have a small part of the post office building.

[FrankChodorov]

Frank are you a lawyer?

I play one on tv...

or is it just your layperson opinion that Dada does not have a case.

let's just say I am surrounded by lawyers and we talking about the issues all the time and we researched this with a lawyer here on the forum (spencer) and identified the exact laws that pertain...

all of the first amendment rights are common rights - in other words individual equal rights that can not be infringed upon by any other person or group of persons (state) so long as you are in a common right of way (like what is contained within a sidewalk) or within collectively owned property specifically designated for that purpose (a public forum, your representatives office, testifying infront of the state legislature, etc)

you have no common right of way in the IRS offices...you do on the sidewalk out front and you do in the general areas of the building for egress into the IRS office to conduct specific business (that is why Russell was allowed to pass unfettered until he reached the IRS office door).

in my opinion the best test case for the IRS would be to wear a T-shirt into the IRS office to conduct IRS business with information on the T-shirt (freedom of speech) that you want to convey.

Dada is right on the line...he is attempting to excercise his freedom of speech rights in collectively owned buildings without conducting any IRS business...when asked to leave he does.

in handing out "handbills" he went too far...I believe the calculus the authorities are weighing is whether or not arresting him within the building without asking him to leave first would help or hinder the situation.

[Rochelle]

you can't disrupt the official business of a collectively owned building by handing out handbills.

I'm going to have to assume that this was meant tongue in cheek or something, because it made me gag when I read it. Not that I was there, but I have a hard time picturing Dada disrupting anything. He's not a very disruptive type of person. It's just a ridiculous charge with the government trying to overstep its bounds and get him to pay a fine that is more symbolic than anything. The costs of these court hearings has to have already over run $125.

Anyway, good luck on March 13, Dada. I hope we get some good news