Dada in Federal Court 7/17 .... leads to 4 days in jail

[d_goddard]

Hey... Bill Grennon's back. 

Good lord...you're right. 

If the IP address fits, you must hit --
"ignore"

[Russell Kanning]

if you can't petition the government in its lobbies, how are you to personally reach its officers?

You can't petition in the federal government's place of business in a way that will disrupt the business the building was intended for.

I was going to put up with your economic rent and such .... but if you keep telling me and my friends that the IRS and such have a right to conduct "business" on their "property" .... then I will have to cast you into outer darkness.

[Russell Kanning]

the government apologist must be purged from our midst

[d_goddard]

I will have to cast you into outer darkness.

Please Russ... no....
There is still good in him. I can feel it!

[Revmar]

if you can't petition the government in its lobbies, how are you to personally reach its officers?

You can't petition in the federal government's place of business in a way that will disrupt the business the building was intended for. In the case you are involved in, that would be the IRS's lobby and was the same reason that Russell was arrested for. You can petition for a redress of grievances in the office of our elected representatives (Congressmen & Senators) within proper offices hours. Some protesters were arrested there recently because they would not leave after office hours. The IRS employees are not "officers" of the federal government. You can also gather signatures for your petitions from fellow citizens upon the public sidewalks so long as you keep moving because it contains a common right of way which we all have an equal right to use so long as we do not infringe on the equal right of any other individual.

at last it's all clear!  We are free as long as we continue to follow all of the rules and hand over all of our money.  Oh, and you can object as long as it does not inconvenience the crooks. 

I'd buy your argument if we were talking about Wallmart of some private business.  Any grievance I'd have with them I could respond by just not doing business with them.  I do not have that choice with the IRS.  With Wallmart the consequence of dispute is I keep my money, they keep there goods.  With the IRS, if I choose not to do business with them I go to jail.

anybody or any group putting a gun to my head to take my property by force deserves to be inconvenienced by my responce.

Okay, I'm done feeding the troll now.

[Dave Ridley]

Below is some contact information for the govt. employees who have been involved in this "distribution of handbills" case.   While they are doing a thing that is wrong, they have been polite to me, so if you contact them I ask that you do the same.  If you have additional contact info of this type, please put it on this thread.

From Revmar:

<< Main Information Line:
603-225-1423

Please contact the appropriate case manager directly on any case-related matters. Refer to the suffix following the case number: SM is a Chief Judge McAuliffe case, PB Judge Barbadoro, JD Judge DiClerico, and JM Magistrate Judge Muirhead. Then, based on the case number-odd or even-contact the deputy listed below.

The Clerk's Office is open from 8:30 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. each business day. The telephone hours, during which the main public office number will be answered, are 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. Should an emergency occur between 8:30 a.m. and 9 a.m. or between 4:00 p.m. and 5 p.m., an emergency contact number will be given on the answering system. Otherwise, please try to limit your calling to the usual telephone hours.

CASES ASSIGNED TO MAGISTRATE JUDGE MUIRHEAD - CASE SUFFIX JM
Jan Bushold    Case Manager: Cases ending in numbers 1-7    225-1485
Ann Mulvee    Case Manager: Cases ending in numbers 8-0    226-7326

As best I can figure it out, I'll be calling (603) 226-7326 and talking to an Ann Mulvee.  At least that's what it looks like to me. >>>

other offices off the top of my head:

      Federal Protection Agency (the instigators of the whole thing apparently)
      55 Pleasant Concord
   224-1261


      U S Attorney 55 Pleasant Concord (they use a different attny. every hearing for some reason)
   225-1552

      U S Marshal 55 Pleasant Concord (have been involved in issuing me summonses).
   225-1632

[Dave Ridley]

How you can help

Some folks are wondering what they can do to help me in the context of my July 17 appearance at Federal court.   Here's a list of possible action items, some of which you can do even if you're outside NH.  If you are willing to do one or two of them, that will make my minor act of civil disobedience all the more worthwhile.

As you probably already know, I'm charged with "Distribution of Handbills" because I briefly entered a Nashua IRS office last year to petition the government for a redress of grievances.   I've also refused to pay the $125 fine Washington has levied against me as punishment and have promised that I will never pay it unless perhaps they can demonstrate for me that they are Constitutionally authorized to levy it.

1) First and maybe easiest, I hope some of you will consider just doing something on your own initiative to support this endeavor.  I have no idea what that would be.  All I care is that it's constructive and peaceful.
2) If you like, drop by our demonstration which starts 8:00 a.m. July 17 at 55 Pleasant Street, Concord NH.
    http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=7057.msg165932#msg165932

3) Come to the trial itself two hours later, same day, same place. 
4) Call liberty lovers in or near New Hampshire and invite them to the demonstration or trial.
5) Make a sign or two for it, or bring a flag. 
6) As you may know, my original "crime" was an imitation of Russell Kanning's attempted distribution of flyers at the Keene IRS office.  It would mean a lot to me if one or more of you were willing to imitate him in some fashion, as I did.   This would remind our rulers our movement is growing.
7) If you aren't in a position to commit "civil dis," consider setting your life on a course that will allow you to do so in the future.  This is what Mike Fisher and Russell Kanning inspired me to do. It may take a long time to prepare for that sort of thing, so if you ever want to do it the time to start may be now.
  Check out the latest article about this trial:
http://www.keenefreepress.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=559&Itemid=36

...and post it to other web forums.   Here's a list of forums where it might be appropriate:
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?&topic=2613.0

Leverage this minor sacrifice as an opportunity to spread the word about liberty activity in New Hampshire.

9) Write a letter to the editor.  The Keene Free Press, the Monitor and the Union Leader seem to print most of what they get.

10) Call Free Talk Live about it and update them: (800) 259-9231   7p-10p Eastern, Mon-Sat.  You can change the topic they are on, no problem.  Average hold time is 20 minutes, average actively-listening audience is perhaps 200,000

11)  Touch base with the bureaucrats and enforcers behind this case if you like; let them know how you feel about their activities.  They've been polite to me so I ask that you return the favor if you contact them:

http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=7057.msg167182#msg167182

That's all I can think of for now, as always it comes back to the "do what you feel like doing" approach.  Often the things you come up with yourself will be the most effective, but if you were at a loss as to what's needed...now at least you have some ideas.

Dave

[EthanAllen]

public sidewalks so long as you keep moving because it contains a common right of way which we all have an equal right to use so long as we do not infringe on the equal right of any other individual.

What if you don't move but aren't blocking the whole way?

Unfortunately "aren't blocking the whole way" is a subjective determination I would not like to leave in the hands of the police authority. Whereas "not moving" is objective by all reasonable standards.

[EthanAllen]

if you can't petition the government in its lobbies, how are you to personally reach its officers?

You can't petition in the federal government's place of business in a way that will disrupt the business the building was intended for.

I was going to put up with your economic rent and such .... but if you keep telling me and my friends that the IRS and such have a right to conduct "business" on their "property" .... then I will have to cast you into outer darkness.

I believe that the income tax is immoral because it violates the absolute right of self-ownership. I am just giving you the constitutional justification for the law . Having said that, I also understand that some people believe that they have not personally consented to the federal constitution that we live under. I would have only been in favor of updating the articles of confederation had I been living at that time. I believe that non-violent, civil disobedience is a just way to attempt to change society, but I also believe that one must willingly and lovingly suffer the consequences of one's acts of public conscience in the hopes of change as Ghandi did. Not the course I would personally choose though.

[d_goddard]

He's not being charged for obstructing a public thoroughfare, nor with preventing public officials from doing their jobs in any way. Those would at least be reasonable charges (though they wouldn't hold up in this case, as he left when asked and did not attempt to disrupt them)

He's being charged for the act of putting a piece of paper into one person's hands (who accepted it willingly) and leaving another piece of paper on a counter-top. Both pieces of paper were petitions for redress of grievance.

[Tom Sawyer]

Score for d_g... Ding for Billy boy. 

[EthanAllen]

He's not being charged for obstructing a public thoroughfare, nor with preventing public officials from doing their jobs in any way. Those would at least be reasonable charges (though they wouldn't hold up in this case, as he left when asked and did not attempt to disrupt them)

He's being charged for the act of putting a piece of paper into one person's hands (who accepted it willingly) and leaving another piece of paper on a counter-top. Both pieces of paper were petitions for redress of grievance.

1. There is no "public thoroughfare" within the IRS office itself. That is why Russell was free to use the lobby to get to the office but stopped before he was allowed to enter the IRS office in Keene after publicly stating what his intentions were when asked and it was determined that it would disrupt the intended purpose of the office. There is a common right of way though within the sidewalk itself that is an individual equal right.

2. Delivering a petition for redress of grievances in this case is by it's very nature an act of disruption because it is not transacting the official business that the office was intended for. You can also not "post" anything within the office without prior approval. Petitions for redress of grievances can be solicited from your fellow citizens wherever there is a common, individual, equal right of way (sidewalks) and delivered to your elected representatives of the government where they have designated offices for that purpose (offices, state house, etc).

Having said all of that, one of my favorite books of all time is Frank Chodorov's "The Income Tax: Root of all Evil"

http://www.mises.org/etexts/rootofevil.asp

[Russell Kanning]

I have your number here and am going to call you to ask a couple of "newbie" questions about the demonstration.

You can ask your questions here also.
It will be helpful if you just show up.

Then you can add any and/or all of these and more:
telling jokes to the rest of us
looking unapprovingly towards the fed building
holding a sign
holding a flag
bringing your own stuff
wearing a cool t-shirt
introducing yourself to the rest of us
taking pictures or video
entering the building for the trial
talking to fed thugs and letting you know how well you think they are doing their jobs
tell your best bill grennon jokes
explain your stand and actions to those that ask
write a letter for our paper describing your level of respect for the U.S. justice system
join us for lunch after the feds give up and apologize to Dada
cheer every time you hear the Browns names

I will be doing some of these things.

[Russell Kanning]

The fact that you have been arrested in the first place is beyond ridiculous.

he has not been arrested ... they have tried to hand him bills ... they have asked him to pay money .... they have asked him to bow to caesar.
They have petitioned Dada ... but he has not threatened them with jail time. Isn't he nice?

[Caleb]

if you can't petition the government in its lobbies, how are you to personally reach its officers?

You can't petition in the federal government's place of business in a way that will disrupt the business the building was intended for. In the case you are involved in, that would be the IRS's lobby and was the same reason that Russell was arrested for. You can petition for a redress of grievances in the office of our elected representatives (Congressmen & Senators) within proper offices hours. Some protesters were arrested there recently because they would not leave after office hours. The IRS employees are not "officers" of the federal government. You can also gather signatures for your petitions from fellow citizens upon the public sidewalks so long as you keep moving because it contains a common right of way which we all have an equal right to use so long as we do not infringe on the equal right of any other individual.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.  Are you saying, basically, "I believe that there is a law that Dada broke, and therefore his actions are illegal. (But, personally, I find his actions moral.)"

Or are you saying, "I believe that Dada did something immoral by handing a piece of paper to an agent of an extremely immoral agency."  Because you've already admitted that the IRS is a form of slavery. By the same logic, would it have been immoral to hand a piece of paper to a person enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act?

Is disrupting the duties of an agency immoral when, by your own admission, the duties of the said agency are to enslave us?  Wouldn't it follow that disrupting the duties of a person when those duties are in and of themselves immoral is actually the moral thing to do?

Understand that I am speaking about moral vs immoral. Not legal vs. illegal. I imagine that Dada probably broke one of their silly little rules.

I am asking whether you think he acted morally?