Dada in Federal Court 7/17 .... leads to 4 days in jail

[EthanAllen]

maybe you ought to have a policy that you just won't comment on CD actions. Or else that you will only say nice things about people that are trying to stop the empire, rather than trying to find some technical loophole as to why they aren't doing it right.

Believe it or not I am trying to help people be more effective. How can you go into a CD action and not know exactly what law you are breaking and why? The point is to accept the punishment to bring societal focus on the issue. Mike the manicurist's CD effort was well done. Yes the income tax is immoral and they do immoral things with the money. I hate to inform you though, this is not a startling revelation!

The anti-war protesters who have been arrested in Sen. Gregg's and Sununu's office know exactly what laws they are breaking and why. I am afraid this is more from those who follow an "emotive anarchism" that is in my book ineffective. But then again, no one has to listen to me.

[EthanAllen]

Isn't a single individual giving a written request asking an IRS employee to quit their job "seeking for something to be done"?

Employees of the IRS are not an "official body". Official bodies are our elected representatives (local, state, federal) and the courts. A petition asks them to take action (legislation or adjudication) via a written request.

The IRS can not take petitions for redress of grievances because they could be effectively shutdown by the disruption, preventing them from completing their official duties. Nor can they allow freedom of speech nor distributing of handbills in the IRS office for the same reason.

EthenAllen - Look at the word you used in your own question! ". . .giving a written request asking an IRS. . ."

To ask your question you used a term actually in the definition of petition! The distinction between the two is one is to inform the other is a request. If the document makes a request, I think it would fall under petition.  So, I would say no!

Blacks Dictionary defines official as "One who holds or is invested with a public office."

I would say the IRS is a public office, and any employee would be considered invested, which is defined as "To supply with authority or power <the U.S. Constitution invests the presidents with the power to conduct foreign affairs>" Given IRS agents supposedly have the "power" to handle IRS matters that would make them a official body in the legal sense. We have to remember words don't mean the same thing in legal land, as the law cult has made up it's own dictionary to use. Otherwise we could simply have common law courts.

You are not requesting that the "official body" change a law (a petition). You maybe requesting that employees of the IRS, who have no authority to change a law, quit their job (a handbill) because you are informing them that the income tax pays for torture and torture is immoral.

[Ogre]

The IRS can not take petitions for redress of grievances because they could be effectively shutdown by the disruption, preventing them from completing their official duties. Nor can they allow freedom of speech nor distributing of handbills in the IRS office for the same reason.

Interesting.

They cannot allow freedom of speech because they could be shut down?  While I understand your premise, that makes no sense.  For example, let's take Dave's case -- they were not shut down.  Not one single person was prevented from doing their job in any way.  A crowd did not gather.  No one was harmed.  No fire regulations were exceeded.  No one at the IRS was forced to do, well, anything.  They could continue doing their official duties completely and totally.  And when asked to leave, Dave even did that.

So how is preventing Dave from walking in the office and stopping his freedom of speech "preventing them from completing their official duties?"  I can understand outlawing disruptions.  I can understand them arresting protesters that have sit-ins and block entrances -- but Dave did not of that.  How about we, as the Constitution suggests, allow freedom of speech everywhere, but just arrest those that actually DO interrupt those official duties?  (Now if you're going to argue that Dave did prevent them from doing their official duties, we really have nothing more to discuss).

[Russell Kanning]

It could take three or four helpers just to get you up at the crack of dawn! 

the FPS guys can bring that many to carry you around

[Lloyd Danforth]

Employees of the IRS are is not an "official body". Official bodies are our elected representatives (local, state, federal) and the courts. A petition asks them to take action (legislation or adjudication) via a written request.

Thus the IRS cannot create a law requiring anyone to do anything.

[Russell Kanning]

In the mean time, I was inspired by a comment Mark Edge made about handing giving the TSA a story about the TSA missing 90% of explosives/guns/knives. So I put that on one side, and based on Dave's adventures a petition for redress of grievances on the other. An artist friend is turning it into a really nice professional looking tri-fold brochure with the World's smallest political quiz on it as well. It should be a nice tool for my travels.

very cool idea

[EthanAllen]

How about we, as the Constitution suggests, allow freedom of speech everywhere, but just arrest those that actually DO interrupt those official duties?

Everywhere? We don't allow freedom of speech for libel, slander, yelling "fire" in a crowded building or inciting a riot. We don't allow freedom of speech on private property without permission of the owner (btw - in anarcho-capitalism where all land is private, where would we have freedom of speech rights?).

If freedom of speech were allowed in the offices of the IRS then it COULD be shutdown with enough people exercising their rights. So we make a law that no one can.

[Russell Kanning]

[TackleTheWorld]

Called Essex County Jail just now.  Records says Dave's there still.  Visiting says Dave Ridley's in the infirmary and not recieving visitors.

I've got Dave's phone and backpack. 
When I hear he's not at Essex anymore, I'll head out to Concord.

[Kat Kanning]

I bet he's in the infirmary because he's fasting.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Careful Ratty.................he may not be the same Data that you knew......plus........you know.........prison pallor

[shyfrog]

To you, the proponents of protection and safety:

Freedom isn't comfortable
Freedom isn't safe
Freedom is not static

Freedom requires responsibility
Freedom requires eternal vigilance
Freedom is hard work

Your "system" is about creating clinical, uncompromising, ruthless, and phlegmatic "law".
Thinking men cannot be ruled. You seek to enslave, not exalt. You seek to control, not edify.

I want to be there when Dada comes back home. I'll see what I can do.

[toowm]

How about we, as the Constitution suggests, allow freedom of speech everywhere, but just arrest those that actually DO interrupt those official duties?

Everywhere? We don't allow freedom of speech for libel, slander, yelling "fire" in a crowded building or inciting a riot. We don't allow freedom of speech on private property without permission of the owner (btw - in anarcho-capitalism where all land is private, where would we have freedom of speech rights?).

If freedom of speech were allowed in the offices of the IRS then it COULD be shutdown with enough people exercising their rights. So we make a law that no one can.

Actually, the freedom of speech is absolute. The circumstances you list are all examples of irresponsible speech, those that many people believe should carry consequences. The "fire in a crowded theater" is a canard that has been misused to restrict speech and legalize criminal action against speech that has no victim. Go ahead -- yell fire. Most likely you will not cause an injury, but may get detained or arrested from the legal precedent.

Speech should always be 100% free. Speech that directly causes harm can be a factor in the injured party bringing suit. Without a victim, speech cannot be a crime.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Careful Ratty.................he may not be the same Data that you knew......plus........you know.........prison pallor

Oh no...please tell me you are making a joke!!! Remember, I'm new to this, the whole...people getting locked up thing. Will he be ill? Would it make sense to bring him a tooth brush and some toothpaste or anything like that? Anything to help get the taste and feel of that place off of him??

Will he be okay?

Just Joking.  One of my jobs

[Kat Kanning]

Don't worry, rattydog.  He's OK.