Dada in Federal Court 7/17 .... leads to 4 days in jail

[Kat Kanning]

No, your sign in fine.

[d_goddard]

I have the rage to do civ dis that would get me locked up...but my life is not prepared for that yet

Two thoughts:

1. If you observe yourself being motivated by rage, Civ Dis is the last thing to consider. Effective Civ Dis  seems to require Ghandi-like (if you prefer, Jesus-like) love for the individuals who will persecute you.

2. If your blood is boiling with rage, the power of the pen is a perfect weapon. Write LTE's. Start a blog. Pass out FTL flyers or copies of the KFP or FIJA flyers (in places where it's "acceptable", of course... unless or until you are in a position to realistically contemplate item #1 above)

[kola]

d goddard. you nailed it!   

kola

[Kat Kanning]

LOL

[Lloyd Danforth]

Don't worry, rattydog.  He's OK.

Don't pay attention to Kat.  Jail's rattled her brain.

[Ogre]

I'm right there with you, RattyDog.  I understand the rage.

Me, I'm also in a little different position.  I'm often told that my appearance is rather "intimidating."  So there's lots of different rules that end up in place when I'm confronted by the police, believe me.  I hope and pray that non-violent resistance will work.  I'm working towards a financial place where I can quickly and easily participate -- and not be phased by being arrested or spending times in jail.  In the meantime, I'm working on other underground skills -- like writing and using a camera.

But yes, you're indeed not the only one who feels the rage and doesn't have a good target for release of it.

[lildog]

When I say rage....it's not like any I've felt before. It's like I'm in the twilight zone or something, I just don't get why people aren't more upset about this when I tell them about it. It's an intellectual rage. I cannot understand how the logic of "First Dave Ridley, Kat, then your neighbor....now who is left to hold and sign and protest when they're carrying you off?" doesn't make sense to people. My brain cannot understand how all people don't understand that this is all so wrong...so so wrong. It is as logical and clear to me as "the sky is up". Why is this so clear to us....why isn't everybody upset? I tell people and they say "Oh, well I'm sorry about your friend, but he just shouldn't go to the IRS office anymore." - everyone is missing the point. Ugh. It's so frustrating...but I guess I didn't get it fora long time....so, I guess I can't be too angry at them. I guess my wish now, is to engage in activities that can infect others with this knowledge.

To put it bluntly people see protesters as nuts.  When you say Dave went to the IRS office to hand out fliers asking them to quit their jobs and he was arrested for it, people don't see that as a first amendment violation of his trying to address his grievances... they simply see it as someone doing something they see as nutty.

If you stop 20 people on the street anywhere in NH and asked them what the first amendment says you'll get freedom of speech and religion but I doubt any of them will know about the grievance part.

Mark Hounsell actually wrote about it this week on NHInsider:
http://www.nhinsider.com/mark-hounsell/2007/7/20/what-things-are-americans-suppose-to-know-and-when-did-so-ma.html

People are uninformed and as a result view things differently from those who are informed.  I've had this same discussion with my sister who can't understand why people do some of the things they do (she's actually a card carrying member of MENSA).

[EthanAllen]

while a man does have a right to question the ethics of an obviously corrupt government, if he does it really loud or with many other people at the same time, it could be disturbing to this corrupt government....so they just outlawed it all together.

It is not "outlawed all together". Today, you and as many of your friends as you can muster could peaceably assemble on the sidewalk in front of the federal courthouse and as loudly as possible condemn the federal income tax and the morality of the torture it pays for because your common right of way to exercise your first amendment rights are contained within the sidewalk - so long as you do not interfere with any other individuals equal right to the same (you have to keep moving). The police are instructed to insure no one's equal rights are being infringed upon. I might even join you.

But you have none of these rights within a collectively owned building not designated for those purposes because there is no common right of way within the building except for rights of egress to get to the offices via lobbies, halls, stairs etc.

[firecracker joe]

 If someone told me my job for the day would be putting people like my heroes dave, kat and lauren  or anyone fighting for their god given rights (and im not religous) i would have to quit that job ,and expose the powers within if its just your job your job sucks.

Best wishes to you dave i have nothing but respect for what you do. Firecracker Joe

[EthanAllen]

Speech should always be 100% free. Speech that directly causes harm can be a factor in the injured party bringing suit. Without a victim, speech cannot be a crime.

Freedom of speech, assembly, conscience, petitioning for redress of grievances, etc. are common rights. Common rights are individual equal rights which means in expressing your first amendment right you can not infringe upon the equal rights of any other individual to the same. So you do not have first amendment rights on private property without permission of the owner and you do not have first amendment rights within collectively owned property not designated for those purposes.

Hypothetical:

You are petition for a redress of grievances within a collectively owned building by testifying in front of your elected representatives (an official body) verbally explaining your written complaint and what actions you and other petitioners would like to see to rectify the situation. While you start speaking, a group of protesters stand up and shout so loudly that your speech can not be heard by the elected officials and other members of the audience who have voluntarily come to hear the proceedings.

What are the obligations of the police to protect the first amendment?

[Kat Kanning]

Congratulations, Judge Muirhead and Cmd. Therrien, you created another radical on Tuesday.

[FTL_Ian]

 

[Russell Kanning]

I'm just so completely pissed....the whole world is just hummin along, people in their cars, goign to work....and an innocent man is locked in jail.

I bet Dada is learning the same lesson that Thoreau did while in jail for 1 night. You look at everyone else differently. It is happening to you. You know that the government is doing bad things .... because you have 1st hand knowledge of 1 case ... and people are funding these activities and just want to pretend it isn't happening.

[d_goddard]

To put it bluntly people see protesters as nuts.  When you say Dave went to the IRS office to hand out fliers asking them to quit their jobs and he was arrested for it, people don't see that as a first amendment violation of his trying to address his grievances... they simply see it as someone doing something they see as nutty.

Bingo.
Acts of Civ Dis have to be absolute master-strokes of intentional planning and knowing the pulse of the public.

I still hold Mike Fisher's "outlaw manicure" as the perfect act of Civ Dis.
Masterstroke.

[EthanAllen]

If you stop 20 people on the street anywhere in NH and asked them what the first amendment says you'll get freedom of speech and religion but I doubt any of them will know about the grievance part.

If you asked 20 libertarians what common rights are I bet you would get the same result. Most libertarians erroneously believe common rights are collective rights.