LTE in Suncook Valley Sun

[CNHT]

Ah but you see I'm not asking you to change your opinion of him, but just to be informed of what has gone on in the past before you came here. It's just more information is all. And I think it's an important issue for you to know about. Passing on this information is neither condemnation nor approval of him.

Does that make sense?

No.  My opinion of someone is based on who that person is, which dictates what that person has done in the past.  What else could it be based on?

I don't "know about" the issue without evidence.  Saying that he "was solely responsible for keeping the income tax OUT of NH" is a pretty strong claim, and I'm not inclined to believe such claims without evidence.  I've seen no real evidence that this was the case, and I've seen a lot to the contrary.

Do you have evidence to support that claim, or not?

Joe

No? What doesn't make sense? That I am telling you about a bit of history? It's history that is well-known by many of us.

I will PM you Ed's email and you can ask him the specifics. He is the Chair of CNHT.  CNHT has been in this business a long time and has been working with the legislature for years so they do know the history of what happened and who was responsible for it. But perhaps you are not familiar with this organization yet.

What have you seen that makes you think that Barnes is for an income tax?

[CNHT]

Joe,

Here you go! Here is the story. It happened in 2000


http://www.seacoastonline.com/2000news/rock/r11_10b.htm

I don't understand why you would doubt an organization who makes it their business to know these things and in most cases knows the person personally, but so be it. There is your story, if the Seacoast Online paper is any more credible to you.

[MaineShark]

Here you go! Here is the story. It happened in 2000


http://www.seacoastonline.com/2000news/rock/r11_10b.htm

I don't understand why you would doubt an organization who makes it their business to know these things and in most cases knows the person personally, but so be it. There is your story, if the Seacoast Online paper is any more credible to you.

Still doesn't say that he "was solely responsible for keeping the income tax OUT of NH."  That's a very, very strong claim.

Especially when we're talking about someone who apparently can't tell the difference between legitimate business and demands for money backed by the threat of violence...  Pretty typical of the pro-tax sort, don't you think?  Re-read his letter, please...

Joe

[CNHT]

Here you go! Here is the story. It happened in 2000


http://www.seacoastonline.com/2000news/rock/r11_10b.htm

I don't understand why you would doubt an organization who makes it their business to know these things and in most cases knows the person personally, but so be it. There is your story, if the Seacoast Online paper is any more credible to you.

Still doesn't say that he "was solely responsible for keeping the income tax OUT of NH."  That's a very, very strong claim.

Especially when we're talking about someone who apparently can't tell the difference between legitimate business and demands for money backed by the threat of violence...  Pretty typical of the pro-tax sort, don't you think?  Re-read his letter, please...

Joe

That article was just the start of his term in office. The vote was actually taken in 2001. And his record clearly shows he is anti-tax.
But if you'd rather replace him with a socialist who lies to you just to get elected...that's your choice.

You can see all the tax proposals for this year here:

http://www.gcglaw.com/resources/tax/proposals.html

Then check Barnes' record on them.

[MaineShark]

Here you go! Here is the story. It happened in 2000

http://www.seacoastonline.com/2000news/rock/r11_10b.htm

Still doesn't say that he "was solely responsible for keeping the income tax OUT of NH."  That's a very, very strong claim.

Especially when we're talking about someone who apparently can't tell the difference between legitimate business and demands for money backed by the threat of violence...  Pretty typical of the pro-tax sort, don't you think?  Re-read his letter, please...

That article was just the start of his term in office. The vote was actually taken in 2001. And his record clearly shows he is anti-tax.

So, therefore, the article doesn't actually support the claim you made.  Plenty of people voted against the tax proposals you mention.  Why is Barnes special?

But if you'd rather replace him with a socialist who lies to you just to get elected...that's your choice.

Well, we know that Barnes is a liar, because he claims to be pro-business, but equates earning a profit with extortion.  Even among other members of Socialist Party B, we could probably find a better choice.

However, I have a potentially earth-shattering notion, but it's just possible that I might vote for a libertarian of some sort...

Joe

[d_goddard]

CNHT is sadly correct that, to get what we all want -- more freedom -- we are going to sometimes have to work cooperatively with people who are just dead-wrong on some issues. Barnes is a good case in point.

That said, she's also dead wrong that it was bad to send this LTE. Wake up, Jane!

I just applauded Joe. That was an EXCELLENT LTE, a great example of exactly how it's done.

It is best to deal with these things issue by issue: just because someone is our ally on "issue X" does not mean he's a saint, nor that he won't be our sworn enemy on "issue Y". The fact is, the government-run, Soviet-style school system has not spent the past 100 years teaching people what government is, what wealth is, and why the two are nearly always diametrically opposed.

That means we have a phenomenal task of education ahead of us. Every one of us needs to be responsible for educating our neighbors, and yes, our elected politicians too.

We all know a good teacher is not one that yells at the class that they are stupid; a good teacher uses real examples to let the students observe and learn things on their own. Again, Joe's letter was a PERFECT example of just that.

[CNHT]

CNHT is sadly correct that, to get what we all want -- more freedom -- we are going to sometimes have to work cooperatively with people who are just dead-wrong on some issues. Barnes is a good case in point.

That said, she's also dead wrong that it was bad to send this LTE. Wake up, Jane!

I just applauded Joe. That was an EXCELLENT LTE, a great example of exactly how it's done.

It is best to deal with these things issue by issue: just because someone is our ally on "issue X" does not mean he's a saint, nor that he won't be our sworn enemy on "issue Y". The fact is, the government-run, Soviet-style school system has not spent the past 100 years teaching people what government is, what wealth is, and why the two are nearly always diametrically opposed.

That means we have a phenomenal task of education ahead of us. Every one of us needs to be responsible for educating our neighbors, and yes, our elected politicians too.

We all know a good teacher is not one that yells at the class that they are stupid; a good teacher uses real examples to let the students observe and learn things on their own. Again, Joe's letter was a PERFECT example of just that.

Denis, I never said it was bad to send an LTE to spank someone. I just said be careful of replacing someone with a person who would be FOR an income tax!
And questioning the price of gas is hardly a serious offense that would we have me trade someone who helped us stop the income tax for someone who wouldn't.
You guys need to take a pill.

[MaineShark]

Thanks, Denis.

Denis, I never said it was bad to send an LTE to spank someone. I just said be careful of replacing someone with a person who would be FOR an income tax!
And questioning the price of gas is hardly a serious offense that would we have me trade someone who helped us stop the income tax for someone who wouldn't.
You guys need to take a pill.

You seem to be under some illusion that we couldn't replace Barnes with anyone who wouldn't start screaming "we need an income tax, this very minute," as soon as he walked into Concord, is that it?

It's not that he questioned the price of gas.  It's that he wants to have the Feds forcibly prevent the station owner from charging a reasonable price.  It's that he considers earning a fair profit to be "extortion."  It's that he supports Real ID and other big government nonsense.  These are the hallmarks of die-hard socialists, not someone who has even the vaguest concern for liberty.  I've sent the two letters to all sorts of people, and even the Democrats who've read them think he's nutty as a fruitcake to call earning a profit "extortion."  Heck, I've sent it to a Canadian, and even with the nutty government they have up there, he can't believe a nut like that is a state senator.

No, we're not going to find perfect candidates, but I'm having a hard time imagining many who would be worse.  And I'm having an easy time imagining many who would be much, much better.  Not perfect, but worlds better than him.  And none of the ones I'm thinking of would dream of allowing an income tax in this state...

Joe

[CNHT]

You seem to be under some illusion that we couldn't replace Barnes with anyone who wouldn't start screaming "we need an income tax, this very minute," as soon as he walked into Concord, is that it?

There are many waiting to pounce who would lie to you about it. At least Barnes has voted against it.

It's not that he questioned the price of gas.  It's that he wants to have the Feds forcibly prevent the station owner from charging a reasonable price. 

Well of course I would not agree to that...

No, we're not going to find perfect candidates, but I'm having a hard time imagining many who would be worse. 

With the latest decision on the education situation, I can.

And I'm having an easy time imagining many who would be much, much better.  Not perfect, but worlds better than him.  And none of the ones I'm thinking of would dream of allowing an income tax in this state...

Joe

You can find them, but it might be hard to get them elected, with one of the main reasons being that everyone would like to have their people running for office but then it's hard to find people to help...they are too busy doing other things.

[MaineShark]

You seem to be under some illusion that we couldn't replace Barnes with anyone who wouldn't start screaming "we need an income tax, this very minute," as soon as he walked into Concord, is that it?

There are many waiting to pounce who would lie to you about it. At least Barnes has voted against it.

What? precisely, is your point?  That people here are too stupid to look at someone?s record and figure out whether he will or won?t be in favor of increased taxation?  That we?re all so gullible that any politician will lie to us and we?ll believe it hook-line-and-sinker?

Many of us are intelligent.  Some I can think of are so intelligent it?s downright scary.  We?re not gullible run-of-the-mill voters who look at nothing more than the ?D? or ?R? next to the name to make our decisions...

It's not that he questioned the price of gas.  It's that he wants to have the Feds forcibly prevent the station owner from charging a reasonable price. 

Well of course I would not agree to that...

And yet, you would have us not even consider the very possibility of replacing someone who would not just agree to it, but would advocate it.

No, we're not going to find perfect candidates, but I'm having a hard time imagining many who would be worse.

With the latest decision on the education situation, I can.

Barnes sold America down the drain for political collateral.  You imagine he won?t turn tail on the tax issue as easily?

And I'm having an easy time imagining many who would be much, much better.  Not perfect, but worlds better than him.  And none of the ones I'm thinking of would dream of allowing an income tax in this state...

You can find them, but it might be hard to get them elected, with one of the main reasons being that everyone would like to have their people running for office but then it's hard to find people to help...they are too busy doing other things.

So, if it?s difficult, I guess it?s not worth doing, eh?

To me, that does not seem to be a motto that could be applied to the Underground...

Joe

[CNHT]

So, if it?s difficult, I guess it?s not worth doing, eh?

It's difficult because people would rather complain than help.

[Dreepa]

Many of us are intelligent.  Some I can think of are so intelligent it?s downright scary. 

Some people like too debate.
I have found that libertarian intellectuals love to debate etc etc etc.
Other people like to do.

That is one of the reasons I like Russell.  Not much of a debate but more of a doer.  I don't agree with some of his methods but he is a doer.
As it says above

"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it."

[CNHT]

Well what I think Joe doesn't understand is, just like we rallied against the Real ID and had some heroes in that fight, in 2001 CNHT rallied the groups to pressure all the legislators NOT to vote for the income tax. Barnes happens to be the hero of THAT particular fight.

What if the question of socialized health care comes up? Would CSPorter still be your hero then?

People gotta stop this one issue stuff and look at the big picture. It's naive.

Plus a lot of newcomers do not know who CNHT is or what they do or have been doing for years in NH.

[MaineShark]

Well what I think Joe doesn't understand is, just like we rallied against the Real ID and had some heroes in that fight, in 2001 CNHT rallied the groups to pressure all the legislators NOT to vote for the income tax. Barnes happens to be the hero of THAT particular fight.

Really?  Like I said before... prove it.  Saying that he once voted against an income tax is a long way from him being the hero who single-handedly held back the forces of darkness...

What if the question of socialized health care comes up? Would CSPorter still be your hero then?

She's not my hero now.  Can't stand her.

People gotta stop this one issue stuff and look at the big picture. It's naive.

Plus a lot of newcomers do not know who CNHT is or what they do or have been doing for years in NH.

The big picture is that Barnes is a dedicated anti-freedom nutjob.  Some of us are looking at the big picture, not the single issue of taxes.

Joe

[CNHT]

The big picture is that Barnes is a dedicated anti-freedom nutjob.  Some of us are looking at the big picture, not the single issue of taxes.
Joe

Well all things being relative I would hardly call him that.
Once you lose NH to an income tax, there goes your freedom as it's based on who controls the money.
In the fight against an income tax, which almost passed in 2001, Barnes was the driving force.
The income tax is our next big fight and if we lose it, the NH advantage is gone forever...and property taxes will stay right where they are.
To me the two most important things are Money and Money. The third one is 2nd amendment. Lose those, and you've lost everything and the power to fight anything else.