Water pipes freezing?

[FTL_Ian]

In another thread, someone said that if the power goes out that the water to the home should be shut off to prevent the pipes from freezing and cracking.

What does the status of the power have anything to do with the pipes freezing?

I have also been told to ensure that water is turned off to outside spigots in the event of freezing temps, and this makes sense.

However, if temperature is the issue, should the water be turned off if the basement temp drops below 32 degrees?

[Kat Kanning]

Our pipes would freeze if the temp falls below about 0 deg. F.  We use heat tape on them, shut down outside spigots, and leave the water dripping a tiny bit inside when it's really cold out.  Ours tend to freeze more than in a normal house since it's a mobile home.

[FrankChodorov]

What does the status of the power have anything to do with the pipes freezing?

because your heating system has an electronic ignition and some way to circulate the water (electric pump) or air (electric fan).

no electricity - no heat, no pumps, no fans...if it is cold enough - frozen pipes.

[FTL_Ian]

Still doesn't make sense.  My furnace is not hooked up to water.  I presume you mean the water heater.  My water heater is nat gas, so that's not an issue.  However, even if the water heater was electric, that would not matter to the cold water piping.  What about that?

[JonM]

If there is water inside a line and whatever the line is surrounded by goes below freezing, you have a chance that the water inside the line will freeze.  The colder the temp, the more likely the water will freeze.  Given that water expands as it freezes, if there is enough held in the pipes that it has nowhere to go, then boom, burst pipe.  Since the water is frozen and the surrounding dirt or air is cold enough to have frozen it, this sort of thing is not evident when it happens.  Come warmer temps, leak city.

Leaving the water dripping provides some convection to prevent freezing, but below certain temperatures even that won't help.  Of course in a house cold enough for that to happen you may have more problems than your pipes bursting, cause it won't be very comfortable to live in.  For lines ouside the house under ground, you have to worry about the ground freezing and remaining cold enough to freeze the water in those pipes.  If there is no water in them, that isn't an issue.

[FTL_Ian]

Water comes into my house from the floor of the basement.  There is a main shutoff valve there.  I don't know if I have access to any controls to the underground piping.  I presume that would be the city of Keene's access.

I don't really understand how I have to worry about the underground pipes freezing.  If I had to worry about that, so would everyone else, right?  How do they stop those pipes from freezing?  Does everyone just allow water to leak when it's cold?

[FrankChodorov]

Still doesn't make sense.  My furnace is not hooked up to water.  I presume you mean the water heater.  My water heater is nat gas, so that's not an issue.  However, even if the water heater was electric, that would not matter to the cold water piping.  What about that?

yikes...your furnace has an electric ignition and an electric blower to circulate warm air in the house.

if your elecrticity goes off for an extended period of time and the temperature of the inside of your hous goes below 32 degrees because the outdoor temperature is 0 then your water pipes on the inside of the house could freeze and burst.

if you are away when this happens and the water is not shutoff you could incur massive damage.

at my mother's house when the heat went off (not because of an outage) while she was away in Fla. she sustained $20K worth of damage at her condo.

[FTL_Ian]

Okay,

So if the basement temp is below 32, set the faucets to drip.  How fast should the dripping be?

At what temp should one shut off the water as opposed to setting the faucets to drip?

I have been looking at heating panels to possibly replace a furnace with, but now I am concerned about the basement temp.  If the 1st and 2nd floors of the house are being heated, is the basement still in danger of freezing?

[MaineShark]

Your basement should not get below 32.  Your basement is unlikely to drop below 45-50, except in the case of an extended power outage.  Plenty of heat will "leak" down through the floor and from the ductwork.

Now, if the power fails, that's a different issue.  If you expect that the power will be out for an extended period, and the house will drop below freezing, shut down the water before you abandon it.

Believe me, by the time your basement drops below freezing, you will no longer be interested in staying in that house...

Joe

[CNHT]

There are outside faucets that are made to stay on all year round which is what I have. But some may not be this type and have to be shut off for the winter.

I am not sure about the pipes freezing, but in a home we own in North Conway, it's gas heat and the pipes froze but fortunately did not burst. We simply had to take a hairdryer to them to get the water going again. The heat was on low during the week until we got there. Same for the house in Maine which was built brand new but had a crawl space and traditional heat kept on 65 or so during a very cold winter.

Ian: Why not hire Joe to come over and give your house the once over before winter and explain what it has and what needs to be done? :-)

[Rifkinn]

Our pipes would freeze if the temp falls below about 0 deg. F.  We use heat tape on them, shut down outside spigots, and leave the water dripping a tiny bit inside when it's really cold out.  Ours tend to freeze more than in a normal house since it's a mobile home.

I was always told not to let water drip, especially in a trailer, because the water in the drain lines in very cold weather might start freezing.

[Lloyd Danforth]

You should find the lowest point in your water system, probably where it enters the house.  If you have sustained cold and no heat and must leave the house, you should turn the water off where it enters the house, and drain the system.  There is a faucet on or near the bottom of your water heater wher you can drain it.
Ian, you should consider a modern woodstove and some back up firewood.  You can install it where it makes the most sense for chimney access.  If your central heating fails you got heat.  If you just want to save on fuel, you can burn wood and move the heat around with the blower from your central heat system.
Kat and Russell know about wood heat as you probably know.

[Otosan]

It has been my experience, cold air moving on or around pipes will make them freeze faster.
Had a house in SC and the pipes froze in the same place every time. There was a small crack in the foundation where air could blow in and around the pipes.  I wrapped the pipes and plugged the hole, no more frozen pipes.
Therefore Pipes should be wrapped and free of air movement.

[Vote Tyler Stearns]

Ian:  Is your house old?  How many stories?  Do you have a full basement?  What's your main heat source? 

Hubby says:  Since heat rises, make sure your basement is well insulated, and try and establish a primary and secondary heat source that will keep your basement warm (thus water pipes), and the heat will rise keeping first floor warmer, too (and your feet nice and toasty!).  We heat with two woodstoves - one in basement and one on first floor (3 floor home).  Wood's still relatively inexpensive...and you can go scrounging around for wood in the national forests for a nominal fee.  As a back-up, we have an Empire LP heater in our basement, which requires no electricity to operate, as well as a 150,000 btu oil furnace, which we haven't used in two years.  We live in the boonies, relatively speaking, and the longest our power has gone out in the winter is 12-14 hours.  Never had a problem with pipes freezing. 

Hubby grew up in an old farmhouse with a stone foundation and partial basement.  They never had a problem with pipes freezing either. 

In another thread people were talking about the need for a generator.  Why?  If the power goes out and you have back-up heat and candles, then what else do you really need?  Don't need to worry about refrigeration, because the assumption is it's cold and your food can be kept outside. 

[PinoX7]

Okay,

So if the basement temp is below 32, set the faucets to drip.  How fast should the dripping be?

when i was little my dad would just put it till it went from drip right to a little stream, we never had problems with freezing pipes, as far as I can remeber.