Complaining about the wrong thing

[Dreepa]

http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061013/REPOSITORY/610130348/1043/NEWS01

http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061014/REPOSITORY/610140316

Instead of complaining about the assessments they should be complaining about the money that is being spent.  Where were these people at town meeting?  Where were they at school meeting where the teacher's contract only passed by 12 votes? ???

[Dreepa]

Tonight over 50 people showed up to the selectman's meeting.  Normally it is me and one or two others.

They were all bitching about the assessment. 
I said you are complaining about the wrong issue.  Complain about the money being spent. A few nuts called for an income tax (whatver).  I did side with the selectmen on one issue.. people said that they don't know what is going on... 3 notices are placed in town, it is in the paper, on the website and they send weekly emails... the info is there if you want it.  Lots of angry people.

Maybe next week the Taxpayers Ass. will have a big meeting.

There was a reporter there so I am sure that there will be a big article tomorrow.

[aries]

I dont understand what people think when they ask for things like an income tax... that they wont have to pay?

Also, right now, posession of any amount is a misedemeanor, why not make posession of any amount decriminalized? Or an infraction?

[cathleeninnh]

If assessments are wrong, it should be bitched about. But even if they are not wrong, people will bitch when they go up. Tax rates go down when assessments go up. Unless spending is increased, local taxes stay the same although more equitably(?) apportioned.

Keep harping on the spending. We really need to get tax bills and town meeting synchronized!

Cathleen

[Lloyd Danforth]

I dont understand what people think when they ask for things like an income tax... that they wont have to pay?

Everybody else is richer.  They will pay.

[cathleeninnh]

Now if we could give everybody an economics lesson and teach them that you really have to pay for what you buy and throw in some golden rule instruction......WHEW

Anybody for some pie in the sky?

Cathleen

[dawn]

It is not uncommon for people not to understand how property taxes work and the direct correlation between spending and tax rates. Although it can be frustrating, keep trying to educate people with the FACTS. Does your taxpayers group have a website? Post something there about it. If everyone in your group understands it and helps spread the word, maybe, just maybe it will spread around to increase the knowledge in your town.

If (big if there) assessments are done properly, then your individual tax bill may or may not go up depending on how accurately your property is now assessed vs. how accuartely it was previously assessed. All things being equal, a higher total valuation of property in your town will decrease the tax rate but if it is applied vs. a higher assessed value, the taxes may be close to the same they were. Unless spending increased which will of course increase your "fair share" of the bill.

Here's a document that helps explain why, in towns that do two billings like Winchester, the second tax bill of the year can make it look like taxes went down (although they really didn't, of course!).
http://www.winchester-informed-citizen.org/pdf/TaxesDown.pdf

[cathleeninnh]

Thanks for the real world example, Dawn.

They can't keep it simple, can they? Most people's eyes will glaze over before the end of the first page.

If those are real numbers for Winchester, I would call that a huge increase. Knowing they update rates and such between the first and second billing, I would hope people are comparing the bills with the one they got same time last year. If last years' 50% bill is $1500 and this year's is $2050, then your taxes went up (for all those reasons mentioned). The second bill is a catch-up bill based on new information.

Did I get a whiff that porcfest will have a tour to the Keene/ Winchester area that includes some town meeting information?
This would be an eye-opening discussion to have.

Cathleen

[dawn]

Mock town meetings are a lot of fun. I'm sure that we could pull one together in this area. We also need to have some prior to town meeting this year. Those of us who live in SB2 towns and vote in March, the first session (aka deliberative session) will be held between 2/3 and 2/10.

These sessions (one for town, one for school), are very important since they determine exactly what will be on the ballot in March. With the exception of zoning articles, everything is up for amendment at the deliberative session. If you care about any issues that you will get to vote on in March, like the operating budget, you HAVE to go to deliberative to let your voice be heard.

[d_goddard]

Mock town meetings are a lot of fun. I'm sure that we could pull one together in this area.

Awesome!
Getting into your town meetings and knowing exactly how they work so you can really work them is a VERY powerful way to make IMMEDIATE reductions in government spending that have direct impact on your personal taxes.

Thank you, Dawn, for volunteering to set up the Town Meeting Training this year... I'll remind you of it at the next NHLA meeting

[Dreepa]

From today's paper:
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061017/REPOSITORY/610170392
and lots of LTEs.

Check out someone's big bald head.

We have over 10 new people for the taxpayer's group.
This coming Tuesday oughta be interesting.

Yeah we have some people that are really good at explaining it. Tomorrow I am going down and getting all the tax records for the past 3 years on CD.
I keep telling people that you voted for a $1.5M increase last March.

[KBCraig]

Check out someone's big bald head.

Was that an angry Lawless crowd? 

[Dave Ridley]

Chris any objections if I add some hopkington perp offices to my silent demo schedule?  any guidelines you'd want me to follow if I drop by?  any suggestions as to where, if anywhere, I should go with my little sign?

[Spencer]

The best part about NH (and what draws me and my wife to plan to move there in the next 12-16 months) is the property tax system.  People actually see what they are paying.  Income taxes don't cause most people to give a crap because all of it is being withheld and therefore never really exists to most people.  Sales taxes are similar in that regard.  Having to cut a check to the government every year hurts, and I think that it is a major reason for NH being as relatively free as it is today.

[Dreepa]

Today's paper:
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061018/REPOSITORY/610180347