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A suggested idea for President's day

Started by Caleb, November 12, 2006, 08:27 PM NHFT

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Caleb

Someone came up with the idea of hanging an effigy of Abraham Lincoln in the Keene square on Presidents day:  Reading a list of his crimes, sentencing him to "death by hanging without benefit of clergy", and then hanging his effigy.  What thinkest you?

Braddogg

I dunno.  Lincoln's very much an American icon.  It might be best not to attack him, especially since doing so would probably make you come off as opposing the emancipation of slaves.

KBCraig

Quote from: Braddogg on November 12, 2006, 09:51 PM NHFT
I dunno.  Lincoln's very much an American icon.

Telling the truth about either Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt is always controversial, but the truth does need to be told.

FDR is iconic to many, but he was controversial enough to have people on both sides, and many aren't surprised to learn the truth about Pearl Harbor. By the time of LBJ, with the nation's blinders off, people were no longer surprised to learn of duplicity by politicians.

Kevin

Spencer

Quote from: Braddogg on November 12, 2006, 09:51 PM NHFT
I dunno.  Lincoln's very much an American icon.  It might be best not to attack him, especially since doing so would probably make you come off as opposing the emancipation of slaves.

To confront this inevitability (being called pro-slavery), be sure to be armed with facts that demonstrate his hypocrisy:

He wanted to enshrine slavery permanently in the Constitution (with the "original" 13th Amendment).
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo104.html

Quote
Lincoln will probably be forever known as the "Great Emancipator" because of the Emancipation Proclamation. But every Lincoln scholar knows something that few Americans are aware of: The Emancipation Proclamation freed no one, because it specifically exempted those areas of the southern states that were at the time under the control of the federal armies while allowing slavery to exist in the "loyal" border states of Maryland and Kentucky and in Washington, D.C. itself.
http://www.mises.org/story/607

Bring an actual copy of the Emancipation Proclamation with you so that everyone can see that it did not free slaves anywhere under Union control; in Lincoln's own words, it emancipates the slaves as follows:

Quote
Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana, (except the Parishes of St. Bernard, Plaquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James Ascension, Assumption, Terrebonne, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the City of New Orleans) Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia, (except the forty-eight counties designated as West Virginia, and also the counties of Berkley, Accomac, Northampton, Elizabeth City, York, Princess Ann, and Norfolk, including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth[)], and which excepted parts, are for the present, left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued.
http://www.nps.gov/ncro/anti/emancipation.html

KBCraig

Quote from: Spencer on November 12, 2006, 11:23 PM NHFT
Bring an actual copy of the Emancipation Proclamation with you so that everyone can see that it did not free slaves anywhere under Union control;

People do not enjoy being disabused of their 3rd grade "history" lessons. It can be painful for them to accept that they've believed a lie for most of their lives.

I've used your same argument, that the EP didn't free a single slave. It specifically excluded those slaves in Union-controlled territory, and very obviously didn't apply in Confederate territory.

It was Lincoln's equivalent to Germany's recent announcement that they have "universal jurisdiction" and can try Donald Rumsfeld for "war crimes" in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay (which didn't involve any Germans or German territory).

Kevin

KurtDaBear

Quote from: KBCraig on November 13, 2006, 01:24 AM NHFT
People do not enjoy being disabused of their 3rd grade "history" lessons. It can be painful for them to accept that they've believed a lie for most of their lives.


I agree.  While I believe that Lincoln's presidency is one of the worst things that ever happened to this country, I think that making Quixotic public attacks on him is counter-productive and not particularly contructive (if not outright destructive) to everything the FSP is attempting to accomplish in NH

Kat Kanning

I think it's a good idea.  Are you going to do that?

Tom Sawyer

The question I pose is will you get a burn permit? ;D

aries

I wouldn't feel bad about attending

I am not a great historian though, could you tell me why we don't like Lincoln?

Lloyd Danforth

Quote from: Caleb on November 12, 2006, 08:27 PM NHFT
Someone came up with the idea of hanging an effigy of Abraham Lincoln in the Keene square on Presidents day:  Reading a list of his crimes, sentencing him to "death by hanging without benefit of clergy", and then hanging his effigy.  What thinkest you?

Do you, really, think its right to deny him the benifit og clergy?

Michael Fisher

Quote from: Caleb on November 12, 2006, 08:27 PM NHFT
Someone came up with the idea of hanging an effigy of Abraham Lincoln in the Keene square on Presidents day:  Reading a list of his crimes, sentencing him to "death by hanging without benefit of clergy", and then hanging his effigy.  What thinkest you?

You may not want to lynch Lincoln!  :o

Do something else maybe, but not that!  :o People will think the Klan has moved in.  ;D

dawn

What would be the purpose of such an event? Will it help bring more liberty to NH?

Personally, I do not see how it could bring about anything positive for liberty or for the people participating.

Lloyd Danforth

I'm guessing that time is running short although I don't have a clue when presidents day is.  This is delicate.  If time allows you could post posters around town listing Lincoln's crimes, (keep replacing them ;D)
Get, at least some, people used to the idea that L was not perfect.  Then, at least someof the people who come apon you torching Lincoln won't join the people beating you up.

Kat Kanning

I think Dawn's just touchy about lynching "Lincolns".   ;)

KBCraig

Quote from: aries on November 13, 2006, 06:23 AM NHFT
I am not a great historian though, could you tell me why we don't like Lincoln?

He used force and conquest to force states into the Union when they had chosen to peacefully secede. One wag has called him the greatest domestic abuser ("If you leave me, I'll kill you!")

He suspended the right of habeus corpus, ordering people arrested and held indefinitely without bail, trial, or hope of release. (Some 18,000 were held as "suspected Confederate sympathizers".)

He interfered with state internal matters, by arresting pro-secession Maryland representatives, preventing them from voting for secession. (Without that, Maryland would have probably seceded too, making it somewhat awkward to have the U.S. capitol completely surrounded by CSA states.)

Here is a decent summary:

http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewarticle.asp?id=12887&authorid=11177