Finding the coercion advocates, and shunning them.

[error]

If a business does a anti-freedom action like supporting a smoking ban then they get taken off the list or put on a list of businesses not to visit.

Prohibiting smoking doesn't mean you are against freedom. It means you refuse to associate and do business to people that does smoke on your property. Banning smoking from an establishment doesn't need to be an act of anti-freedom.

No cookies for you. A business owner can prohibit smoking in his own restaurant if he wants to. There's no problem with that at all. The problem, and an anti-freedom rating, would be when the business owner calls for a government enforced smoking ban.

[Minsk]

... Whatever reason it is, it doesn't need to be anti-freedom unless he accepts someone's else demand to prohibit smoking!

Would that be claiming a store owner who bans smoking in response to customer complaints is anti-freedom?

Might I rewrite it to: "it doesn't need to be anti-freedom unless he is forced to accept someone else's demand to prohibit smoking"? (or forces some other store owner to ban smoking, of course)

[lordmetroid]

... Whatever reason it is, it doesn't need to be anti-freedom unless he accepts someone's else demand to prohibit smoking!

Might I rewrite it to: "it doesn't need to be anti-freedom unless he is forced to accept someone else's demand to prohibit smoking"? (or forces some other store owner to ban smoking, of course)

Of course I meant to word it like that. Sorry for the confusion, and somewhat angst I get from all of you all the time. I just thought the person I quoted  suggested that everyone banning smoking would be described as anti-freedom person and I don't think that is right.

[Bald Eagle]

I'm very very in favor of the shunning idea.

Sometimes tolerance is a good thing, other times, you can be so "open-minded" that your brains fall out.

Refuse to speak to them, refuse to sell them food, gas, clothing - anything.  Refuse to give them courtesy or respect.  Drive them out like dogs.  Give them nothing but a barren, meaningless existence and maybe they will look for greener pastures to rule.  Maybe their wives and children will complain to them that no one likes them because their husband/daddy is a jack-booted thug.  Make them spend so much time on familial/marital discord that they're too distracted/exhausted to be a super-statist.  Drive them to the statist paradises of Taxachusetts, NJ, NYC, CA so that we can accentuate statism vs freedom.  Polarize the country so that all the people who want freedom will be driven like frogs from the suddenly too-hot pot to the cool  pond of NH.

If people are out there spreading bad ideas, and bad language that promotes thinking with a statist mentality, then I don't have much opposition to shunning, or even verbally abusing them.  I have freedom of expression, and if certain people disgust me to the point that I want to vomit, then why should I hold back?  I call cops and politicians liars, thieves, and thugs all the time - right to their face - right in their little govt meeting room or in the cop store I work in.  Why hide what you feel about these people?  I think a little public honesty is healthy.  Why talk behind their backs when we can be saying "Leave NH, you theiving, murdering, slave-driving, lying, fascist thug!"  Do it often enough every day and maybe they will!  I find liberty-minded civilians in the shop all the time by sounding off, and hand out FSP flyers every chance I get. 

Cops' pay sucks, their job is (uneccessarily) dangerous, the only thing they have to keep them going is their feeling of legitimacy, righteousness, and respect.  Take that away from them, and they 'll probably quit.  I get to see the kind of turnover the county PD/SO's have as well as corrections, juvenile "justice", etc.  It's not worth it to them if the public doesn't support them.

They're currently outfitting "Crowd Management Teams" - the whole riot gear squadron (thanks to homeland stupidity grants), and when they come in to get fitted for their CMT gear, I say, "Oh, the Crowd Massacre Team?"    So many of them want balaclava-style masks.  "I guess you need that sort of thing if you're ashamed of what you do.  Do you want the ones with the swastika or the SS on it?"  "I doubt that little tyrant outfit is gonna protect you from a RIFLE.  I'm a big fan of 30-06 myself."

If we want these people out - then make the environment that they have to live in so socially unbearable that they leave.  Make them nervous, make them sweat.  I make effective use of my disgust and my loud, far-carrying voice to curse, berate, embarrass, torment, harass, and humiliate statists of every type.  Sometimes, I guess I'm so caught up in their injustice that I forget that our store offers LEO discounts on certain items.     If they're so damn ignorant that they don't know what gun they carry, I sell them EXACTLY what they asked for: A holster for A gun.  Tough crap if it might be the wrong one and they drove 2 hours to get to the store.  AWwwww.  I always push the most expensive duty gear at them and forget about the clearance items for 1/100th the price.  Maybe they'll go looking for a better paying job.

We ought to have a website where we compile files with photos (in & out of uniform) addresses and phone numbers (and SSN's !) of every cop/politician/bureaucrat along with how they vote, mp3 files of damning anti-liberty quotes, everything we can get our hands on.
Leave a section for comments by the public - we're sure to get some juicy dirt that way.
Discredit them, catch them red-handed, and embarrass them.  When you see them in the street, walk up and say, "Hey, aren't you that government-hired thug who ... Yeah, I saw you on that website.  You're a loser.  Why don't you go to Assaschusetts or something?"

I wish I could set up a tape recorder and camera in my shop so I could show people how elitist/statist some of them really are.  A few of them are reasonably cool (at least when they're in the shop and not handing me a ticket or worse) and seem to be the exception.  Few of them think, let alone think about Liberty and Freedom. Or morality.  It's all just rules to them - rules for rules sake.  Because.

Politicians can dream up and pass as many damn laws as they want - so what, if there's no one willing to enforce them?  They can pass any damn tax they want - so what, if there aren't any thugs left to steal and intimidate people into paying?

I've seen too many cops gleefully beat random people in a crowd for no reason whatsoever than that person got stuck in a crowd that the cops decided to attack.  It's idiocy to stand there and get your skull busted in, or hosed down with pepper spray, or hit with pellets/bean bags/rubber or wooden batons from a riot gun, or get gassed.  People USED to bring their muskets with them EVERYWHERE - in the streets, to school, to public meetings, into courtrooms - we need to reestablish the tradition of being armed.  Cops love to beat up hippies, but I think they'd think long and hard about rushing a crowd armed with rifles, pistols, and body armor.  We're not trying to start fights in NH, we're trying to stop the ones that THEY start.  We don't initiate violence, but I'm not sure what is going to get accomplished if we back down from it or not use appropriate force in self-defense.

As far as I'm concerned, none of this qualifies as use of force, and even if it dances on the edge - hey - the people we're shunning LOVE the idea of using force to "solve" "problems" - let's give them a taste of the world they want.  Then Ghandi, I mean Russel, can step in and show them the righteous and personally rewarding path of Liberty.  I think Good Libertarian / Bad Libertarian could be a good thought-provoking technique.   



Anyone who wants protective gear, get in contact with me while I can still get gear for 10% above cost.

Body armor, trauma plates, level IIIA - helmets, shin guards, shields, and blankets, riot shields, pads, and visored helmets, gloves, boots, warm pre-arrest clothing  , mace, high-intensity flashlights, gear bags and weapons cases, radio earpieces you name it. 
I have some really cool managers.   

I can ship it to you, or bring it up to PorcFest or you can just take it off my moving truck in August (Yay!)

[cathleeninnh]

I was brought up to never stoop to others' bad behavior. I don't intend to start now. Of course we avoid or ignore or explain our position, but being "ugly" is low class.

Cathleen

[Lloyd Danforth]

I don't think Bill is talking about being 'ugly'. Its more about appropriate behavior for the occaision

[Bald Eagle]

Right-o, Lloyd.

Standing around holding signs while people's lives are being destroyed doesn't seem to me to be the MOST effective means of combatting tyranny. 

They regulate our lives to the point that we have to struggle to find time for ourselves, and then to protect that time, we need to spend a lot of it fighting them so that they don't pass even more regulations.  Our paychecks are plundered and then the money is given to our enemies to be used against us. 

We can't just roll with it, or "just say no" until they finally catch up with us and lock us in the can with REALLY nasty people.

We need to FIGHT - using whatever ethical means are the most effective.  Otherwise it just seems to be "feel good" resistance.

Am I being "ugly?"  No, I'm simply telling the unvarnished truth instead of remaining silent.  I don't like what certain people are doing, and sometimes I don't like the actual people who are doing it - and I want them to leave.  Now. 

If you don't like supporting State-sponsored coercion, why stop at depriving them of tax money?  Deprive them of every resource possible - food, clothing, shelter, fuel, supplies, psychological comfort, social acceptance ....  If it's ethical to resist them 50%, then it must be ethical to resist them 100%  Let's put the thumbscrews on!  Speak out against their crimes, and refuse to tolerate and support the criminals.  Standing by and allowing them to freely continue what they do without resistance is about as ethical as standing by and watching a rape in progress.  I think the victim would want you to do something more proactive than hold a sign.

Clearly, rounding them all up and launching them into the heart of the sun would forward the cause of Liberty tremendously, and although C. S. Lewis wrote they we are individual agents of God, personally responsible for stamping out not only evil, but the evildoers themselves (one of his characters hunts down an agent of Satan and bashes his skull in with a rock), I don't think we're quite at the point yet where we need to sink the Eye Teeth of Liberty into the necks of the tyrants. 

But we're dangerously close.

[Russell Kanning]

Business people always say there is no such thing as bad press. Maybe someone could start a website with pro freedom businesses it could be like a yellow pages for freedom lovers.

Revolutionaries say that .... businesses spend billions to avoid bad press.
Hey lookie there:
http://underground.soulawakenings.com/tiki-index.php?page=Liberty+Business+Directory

We have not kept it up. But people are free to do this stuff on our forum or wiki. It is up to you.

[Bald Eagle]

http://www.libertarianyellowpages.com/

[FTL_Ian]

We ought to have a website where we compile files with photos (in & out of uniform) addresses and phone numbers (and SSN's !) of every cop/politician/bureaucrat along with how they vote, mp3 files of damning anti-liberty quotes, everything we can get our hands on.

You should do this when and if you move to Keene.  Or at least let me set you up with a blogger account on FreeKeene.com   

[Spencer]

Sounds a little like a local version of

[FTL_Ian]

Sounds a little like a local version of

Shame they charge now.

[Russell Kanning]

btw Ed Brown would like us to shun all of the reporters that do rotten stories on his situation.

[SAK]

I agree with calling out coercion advocates.  If a business owner supports a government ban on smoking, guns, or anything else that isn't a true crime, call the person out.  Boycott the business.  I personally have no desire to give money to enemies of freedom.

They used to shave women's heads and banish them from town for sleeping with the Germans.  I'm not advocating this, but certainly the answer is somewhere in between   There's nothing morally or ethically wrong with speaking up and backing that speech up with action (or inaction).

I'm with Baldy that we do far too little as it is.  Holding up signs while Ed Brown gets his door kicked in and his ass shot isn't proving much of a point

[maineiac]

I agree with calling out coercion advocates.  If a business owner supports a government ban on smoking, guns, or anything else that isn't a true crime, call the person out.  Boycott the business.  I personally have no desire to give money to enemies of freedom.

They used to shave women's heads and banish them from town for sleeping with the Germans.  I'm not advocating this, but certainly the answer is somewhere in between   There's nothing morally or ethically wrong with speaking up and backing that speech up with action (or inaction).

I'm with Baldy that we do far too little as it is.  Holding up signs while Ed Brown gets his door kicked in and his ass shot isn't proving much of a point

Goddamit, SAK!

Bust out those shootin' irons and provisions!