Sign the First 1000 pledge!

[Atlas]

I must say that FTL_Ian has probably brought in a couple hundred pledgers via his show, so he's definitely done his part. The Plegde's main idea is to give the FSP a new boost. Expediency isn't so bad to get to the next level. Not to mention the Pledge isn't legally binding, so it's up to the signers to fulfill their respective commitments.

[FTL_Ian]

Ian, you are clueless.   YOU are the one who has sabotaged this.  Though it may come as a complete shock to you, not everyone finds deception a virtue.  Geez at least where I live now I can trust my friends.  I guess I'll have to watch my back in NH.

Oh boo hoo.  So I publicly revealed one of the myriad of ways to cheat pledgebank, and that makes me a clueless saboteur?

Fact: Pledgebank is flawed.  Take your complaints up with them or the FSP leadership for using their service instead of crafting their own.

The pledgebank system is being exploited by certain parties who believe the success of F1K is more important than total accuracy of signers.  Considering there's no way to verify ANY signatures on the F1K, it makes more sense for it to succeed than for it to fail.  I happen to know a few individuals who have signed up more than once.  These are very trustworthy individuals, they just want the F1K to succeed.  They are people already in NH who want to see more people here sooner rather than later.  If F1K succeeds, that will happen.  If it fails, there will be a slight setback.

I'm a legitimate signer, early mover, and Golden Porcupine.  I can tell you a lot of trustworthy people feel the same way I do.

[Soundwave]

I'm a legitimate signer, early mover, and Golden Porcupine.  I can tell you a lot of trustworthy people feel the same way I do.

Not to mention the biggest recruiter of the FSP.

[Rocketman]

Ian, you are clueless.   YOU are the one who has sabotaged this.  Though it may come as a complete shock to you, not everyone finds deception a virtue.  Geez at least where I live now I can trust my friends.  I guess I'll have to watch my back in NH.

Oh boo hoo.  So I publicly revealed one of the myriad of ways to cheat pledgebank, and that makes me a clueless saboteur?

Fact: Pledgebank is flawed.  Take your complaints up with them or the FSP leadership for using their service instead of crafting their own.

The pledgebank system is being exploited by certain parties who believe the success of F1K is more important than total accuracy of signers.  Considering there's no way to verify ANY signatures on the F1K, it makes more sense for it to succeed than for it to fail.  I happen to know a few individuals who have signed up more than once.  These are very trustworthy individuals, they just want the F1K to succeed.  They are people already in NH who want to see more people here sooner rather than later.  If F1K succeeds, that will happen.  If it fails, there will be a slight setback.

I'm a legitimate signer, early mover, and Golden Porcupine.  I can tell you a lot of trustworthy people feel the same way I do.

None of this leads to the conclusion that the end (getting more people to move) justifies the means (misleading prospective movers).  I think fudging the number is foolish and makes us look desperate, when the qualities we should be projecting are basic integrity and simple, unpretentious confidence in the movement we are building.

[Braddogg]

The pledgebank system is being exploited by certain parties who believe the success of F1K is more important than total accuracy of signers.  Considering there's no way to verify ANY signatures on the F1K, it makes more sense for it to succeed than for it to fail.  I happen to know a few individuals who have signed up more than once.  These are very trustworthy individuals, they just want the F1K to succeed.  They are people already in NH who want to see more people here sooner rather than later.  If F1K succeeds, that will happen.  If it fails, there will be a slight setback.

Ian, the pledge was set up with the phrase "as long as."  That the F1K is not legally binding is irrelevant.  If you and the FSP High Command wanted to set up a pledgebank saying "I'm moving up to NH by the end of 2008," then y'all should have.  The F1K pledge as stands says that the signers will move "as long as" 999 other people agree to do the same.  It is pattently dishonest to forge signatures, and I'm not sure how you can disagree with that statement.

[FTL_Ian]

None of this leads to the conclusion that the end (getting more people to move) justifies the means (misleading prospective movers).  I think fudging the number is foolish and makes us look desperate, when the qualities we should be projecting are basic integrity and simple, unpretentious confidence in the movement we are building.

How does it make "us" look desperate?  There are individuals out there fudging a few signups.  I'm not included, you're not included.

If we wanted integrity, pledgebank was not a good choice.  That has been my point all along.  Some have been angry that I pointed it out.   

[maineiac]

This thread is illustrative of the inherent difficulties with collectives, eh?

[FTL_Ian]

Ian, the pledge was set up with the phrase "as long as."  That the F1K is not legally binding is irrelevant.  If you and the FSP High Command wanted to set up a pledgebank saying "I'm moving up to NH by the end of 2008," then y'all should have.  The F1K pledge as stands says that the signers will move "as long as" 999 other people agree to do the same.

I know what it says.  For the record, I did not come up with the pledge idea.  I was simply approached by the FSP and asked to be the initial signer and "sponsor".

It is pattently dishonest to forge signatures, and I'm not sure how you can disagree with that statement.

Did I at any point disagree with that statement?  I've only been pointing out facts.  I've not encouraged others to cheat, but as the system is easily manipulated - some people have.  What they are doing is certainly dishonest.  I just think auditing the signers on a system rampant with fraud is counter-intuitive.

[Braddogg]

Ian, the pledge was set up with the phrase "as long as."  That the F1K is not legally binding is irrelevant.  If you and the FSP High Command wanted to set up a pledgebank saying "I'm moving up to NH by the end of 2008," then y'all should have.  The F1K pledge as stands says that the signers will move "as long as" 999 other people agree to do the same.

I know what it says.  For the record, I did not come up with the pledge idea.  I was simply approached by the FSP and asked to be the initial signer and "sponsor".

Thanks for the correction; I think I remember you saying that before, and I'm sorry if I gave the impression that the pledge was your design.  It is, of course, something you support and have been made figurehead of.

I've not encouraged others to cheat, but as the system is easily manipulated - some people have.  What they are doing is certainly dishonest.  I just think auditing the signers on a system rampant with fraud is counter-intuitive.

You've encouraged them by calling it moral to do so.  You weren't just acknowledging facts, you were commending actions (and attacking the actions the FSP High Command were making to make it a more honest system).  You also called people doing dishonest things trustworthy ("I happen to know a few individuals who have signed up more than once.  These are very trustworthy individuals, they just want the F1K to succeed.").  How many dishonest things must a person do before they are no longer trustworthy?

[Rosie the Riveter]

Castle_chaser, thanks for your post while I typed this.  Certainly, I did not intend to suggest that everyone on this board is dishonest....that would be illogical.  There seem to be a few with moral compasses so off, that they assume everyone is as dishonest as they are and thus do not hide themselves.

Of course, I'm sure you didn't intend that. I just hope that when you do come to NH you will feel comfortable and glad to be here. I can imagine that it would not be fun to move if you felt like you had to "watch your back". I have always felt the opposite, only honest friendships, and I had to share that with you.

One of the wonderful things I have noticed about the FSP is that many of the early movers have become like family. Everyone I have come in contact with through the FSP has been so kind. I just had to be sure that you knew that.

~Kate

[Jitgos]

Wow went to check the pledge stats and was blown away... what the hell is going on?

You're right that they cannot really verify any name on the list 100% so how do they decide that some names are fake? Are people signing up as Ben Dover or something?

[Russell Kanning]

I must be a latecomer to this thread.

Why add fake names?

The system is not perfect, but why?

....btw did I remember to sign up Shorty? He can move to The Shire ..... once we create it.

I think el presidente's pledge is gone. I liked it. I can't remember why.

[Russell Kanning]

By the way, do you suppose there may be a couple hundred people hanging around out there waiting to try to be the 1000th signer?

I met one yesterday. Maybe he doesn't want to sign "only if 999 others" until there are 999.

[Kat Kanning]

Jim Johnson has tried to sign up a couple times and never wound up on the list.  How many people have thought they signed and didn't get the verification email?  That's what happened to Jim the first time.  The numbers game is stupid.  Pledgebank is very flawed.

[Kat Kanning]

Caleb signed someone up that he talked to and it never showed up.  There's something wrong with the software, or they're removing legitimate signers.