Any Dieselheads/BioDiesel nutz out there in FSP-land?

[Michael Fisher]

I've not been posting much lately.   My nose has been buried in my pet projects and I go through phases on the intardw3b anyhow.

My recent obsession is my '84 Turbo-diesel Camry project.  This car is awesome and I'm learning a bunch about diesel, biodiesel and when I am done will have a gas-shortage proof transportation option.  I really think there is going to be guzzeline rationing in the soon to pass future due to either actual shortages or government meddling (more likely) getting much worse and ruining a free-market solution.

Anyone in NH collecting veggie and/or brewing bio?  It would be cool to have some connections in my "new home" when I'm in town to buy fuel.  A FSP biodiesel coop would be a good idea in my opinion as well as connection for mechanical diesel needs when I'm far from my own tools (hopefully once I get this car restored it will need very little in maintenance other than scheduled stuff which I'm pretty crazy about -by the book but that is why my 285K '94 gas Camry is still running strong too).

Diesel is fun.  I love getting my hands oily!

I may be joining a biodiesel research project soon on a special species of algae in the Great Salt Lake. We've talked about algae-oil biodiesel on this forum many times. I began experiments growing various species months ago. The discussion is buried somewhere around here.

[Pat McCotter]

Why go to all the trouble of converting to biodiesel? Use straight/waste vegetable oil. Yes, you should use a two-tank system in colder climes. Yes, you need to run on diesel - or biodiesel - to warm up the vegetable oil in the veg oil tank. But you use less diesel and have no methanol or lye storage/usage.

[Lloyd Danforth]

I got all I needed to start by from Journey to Forever

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

I ordered a book that Maria Alovert  wrote.  She goes around the country giving seminars on making biodiesel.  The book took forever to come.  I was in a Borders and bought ' Biodiesel and Beyond'.
The author visits a number of home brewers and reports on their methods, then criticises them as to their danger and unlikely good results.   I'm wondering why I spent 30 bucks to read this guy badmouth home brewers and then he explains how to overcome the danger and produce good fuel.  He builds a system and provides lots of photos and explanations.
Later the Alovert book came and it was like a comic book by comparrison.

[polyanarch]

"Why go to all the trouble of converting to biodiesel?"

What trouble?  Putting the hose into the tank?  Changing the fuel filter a little early after Bio cleans up all the junk from the tank -maybe draining it first if you think your tank is REALLY DIRTY.  Or replacing a couple feet of rubber line if your vehicle is really old? (Should be done anyhow as scheduled maintenance anyhow if your vehicle is THAT old.

The worst trouble in "converting" to Biodiesel is just FINDING the stuff or building a reactor to make it.  That, and educating yourself about the do's and don'ts -especially in cold weather.

The guy who is rebuilding my Injector Pump says he sees MANY MANY MANY WVO-converted IP's come through his shop.  I was hell-bent for converting to veggie but spending $800-1200 bucks in 20-30K miles seems like a FALSE economy -even if they were CHEAP just getting them off and reinstalling them is a PITA.  Veggie oil just eats up IP's.   

[Lloyd Danforth]

I bought my diesel with the idea of puting in or building a kit.  Properly settled, filtered and de-watered,  WVO is OK on your IP.  I avoided biodiesel because of the  'chemistry'.  Once I actually read about it, I realized it was simple chemistry.
The advantages of the bioD are obvious, especially being able to run it in an oil burner without converting anything.

[money dollars]

I get Methanol in a gallon jug from Irving gas stations.....

http://www.irvingoil.com/pr_business/pr_lubs/prodsel.asp?inid=1&catid=13

Is there a substitute source for lye? I understand Red Devil is on the outs.

Yea, red devil is no longer being made. If I find a store that still has it I will buy it because it is cheaper that way. I haven't had to go to another brand yet, but they are out there. I also have soap making supplies and I have lye with that.
http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/files/filelibrary/1271/31031.pdf

I like this book...I have the pdf somewhere....:
From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank ? The Complete Guide to Using Vegetable Oil as an Alternative Fuel

[Pat McCotter]

I get Methanol in a gallon jug from Irving gas stations.....

http://www.irvingoil.com/pr_business/pr_lubs/prodsel.asp?inid=1&catid=13

Is there a substitute source for lye? I understand Red Devil is on the outs.

Yea, red devil is no longer being made. If I find a store that still has it I will buy it because it is cheaper that way. I haven't had to go to another brand yet, but they are out there. I also have soap making supplies and I have lye with that.
http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/files/filelibrary/1271/31031.pdf

I like this book...I have the pdf somewhere....:
From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank ? The Complete Guide to Using Vegetable Oil as an Alternative Fuel

I also have that book.

[Pat McCotter]

"Why go to all the trouble of converting to biodiesel?"

I meant "Why go to all the trouble of converting the WVO to biodiesel?" Sure, if you are going to buy B100 from someone, go for it. If you are going to convert the WVO to biodiesel yourself, I ask "Why?" Why not convert the car to a two-tank system? Instead of having to settle, filter, titrate, heat, mix with sodium methoxide, settle and separate glycerin and biodiesel - why not just settle and filter?

I put 8000 miles on my 85 Mercedes wagon on WVO in a two-tank system. I had no problems whatsoever. That was driving 700 miles per week. I collected about 45 gallons per week. 35 gallons of that was good usable oil. The rest was thrown out. It could have been composted but I did not have the facilities to do that.

I still have the tank, level gage, 6-way valve and switches for the system. I will be putting it into another car sometime in the future.

[SeanSchade]

I've not been posting much lately.   My nose has been buried in my pet projects and I go through phases on the intardw3b anyhow.

My recent obsession is my '84 Turbo-diesel Camry project.  This car is awesome and I'm learning a bunch about diesel, biodiesel and when I am done will have a gas-shortage proof transportation option.  I really think there is going to be guzzeline rationing in the soon to pass future due to either actual shortages or government meddling (more likely) getting much worse and ruining a free-market solution.

Anyone in NH collecting veggie and/or brewing bio?  It would be cool to have some connections in my "new home" when I'm in town to buy fuel.  A FSP biodiesel coop would be a good idea in my opinion as well as connection for mechanical diesel needs when I'm far from my own tools (hopefully once I get this car restored it will need very little in maintenance other than scheduled stuff which I'm pretty crazy about -by the book but that is why my 285K '94 gas Camry is still running strong too).

Diesel is fun.  I love getting my hands oily!

I saw a gas station yesterday that sold bio-diesel for $2.35 per gallon. I can't remember the exact location, but I believe it was on 108 between Exeter and Durham. 

[Michael Fisher]

"Why go to all the trouble of converting to biodiesel?"

I meant "Why go to all the trouble of converting the WVO to biodiesel?" Sure, if you are going to buy B100 from someone, go for it. If you are going to convert the WVO to biodiesel yourself, I ask "Why?" Why not convert the car to a two-tank system? Instead of having to settle, filter, titrate, heat, mix with sodium methoxide, settle and separate glycerin and biodiesel - why not just settle and filter?

I put 8000 miles on my 85 Mercedes wagon on WVO in a two-tank system. I had no problems whatsoever. That was driving 700 miles per week. I collected about 45 gallons per week. 35 gallons of that was good usable oil. The rest was thrown out. It could have been composted but I did not have the facilities to do that.

I still have the tank, level gage, 6-way valve and switches for the system. I will be putting it into another car sometime in the future.

My pet project is trying to teach people how to grow highly lipid-productive algae independently (at home, in vats) with minimal expense, extract the oil from it, and add it to their dual-tank vehicles (one heated tank). "Biodiesel" and chemical treatments are not my goal, as they're currently too complex and expensive for independent fuel production. Sorry for the confusion.

[Lloyd Danforth]

 I know UNH is experimating with algae as a feedstock for biodiesel, but, I don't know how it holds up against other sources as per gallons per acre.

[Michael Fisher]

I know UNH is experimating with algae as a feedstock for biodiesel, but, I don't know how it holds up against other sources as per gallons per acre.

UNH is apparently not releasing their results either, apart from a vague discussion of what they've tried. 

[money dollars]

I know UNH is experimating with algae as a feedstock for biodiesel, but, I don't know how it holds up against other sources as per gallons per acre.

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html


from the UNH site:

projected yields of course depend on a variety of factors, sunlight levels in particular. The yield in North Dakota, for example, wouldn't be as good as the yield in California.

theoretically achievable - roughly 15,000 gallons per acre-year

consider that even if we are only able to sustain an average yield of 5,000 gallons per acre-year in algae systems spread across the US....

compare to canola.....127 gallons per acre-year


FYI....The Irving methanol is $5.99 per gallon....not all Irving gas stations have it...the more urban ones don't seem to carry it.

[KBCraig]

For those stuck with (or sticking with) gasoline, I started a threat on water/alcohol injection systems.

http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=6657

[Seamas]

That was my question when I read this too.  If one can acquire waste veggie oil (WVO) for free or nearly so I'd rather spend the money up front to put in a two tank system than deal with processing nasty chemicals in/near my home. 

I think there are many motives for going to WVO/biodiesel and the right choice of course depends on what matters to you but these are the reasons I can think of:
1) saving money:  This seems unlikely unless one drives a lot of miles.  Most diesel cars in the U.S. are a lot more expensive than similar gassers (e.g. Volkswagon TDI vs. small Japanese gas cars).  Add in the cost of a two tank conversion, time spent on converting/collecting WVO, commercial biodiesel costing more than gas, etc. and I think it's unlikely to pay back.
2) not sending money to horrible foreign governments: It's pretty obvious that governments funded by extraction of resources tend toward being very anti-freedom to the point of risking our freedom by supporting them.  Sending less money their way seems a very good idea to me.
3) avoiding subsidizing our governments:  Using WVO pays no fuel taxes.  Using home heating oil pays less tax than buying diesel.
4) not wasting a "free" resource: If restaurants are paying to get rid of WVO it seems wasteful to not take advantage of a win-win situation.  Of course, this can only become so popular before it's no longer free.
5) it's good for the environment: WVO is cleaner than petro diesel but diesel vs. gas depends on which pollutants one considers worse.
6) the fun of tinkering with your vehicle/fuel as a hobby:  I think this is understated by advocates of WVO as their motivation.  It's also a likely reason that WVO won't become rare in the near future - most people don't want to tinker with their vehicle.

Anywho, seeing Pat's veggie wagon at a PorcFest and being introduced to WVO by him was really interesting and inspired me to look into this despite my love of my bike and how it gets better fuel economy than any car but a Honda Insight.  If I have to resort to a cage when I move to NH I'll be thinking about all the above.  Still, I think my choice will be to live close enough to work that I don't have to drive daily.

"Why go to all the trouble of converting to biodiesel?"

I meant "Why go to all the trouble of converting the WVO to biodiesel?" Sure, if you are going to buy B100 from someone, go for it. If you are going to convert the WVO to biodiesel yourself, I ask "Why?" Why not convert the car to a two-tank system? Instead of having to settle, filter, titrate, heat, mix with sodium methoxide, settle and separate glycerin and biodiesel - why not just settle and filter?

I put 8000 miles on my 85 Mercedes wagon on WVO in a two-tank system. I had no problems whatsoever. That was driving 700 miles per week. I collected about 45 gallons per week. 35 gallons of that was good usable oil. The rest was thrown out. It could have been composted but I did not have the facilities to do that.

I still have the tank, level gage, 6-way valve and switches for the system. I will be putting it into another car sometime in the future.