Property tax rebellion in Nashua?

[Russell Kanning]

It isn't my fault that other people still pay property taxes to the evil government. They could all become activists.

[Rosie the Riveter]

It isn't my fault that other people still pay property taxes to the evil government. They could all become activists.

Isn't it always your fault, Russel?   

[ninetales1234]

The only fair tax is no tax. Remember, the Bible doesn?t say, ?Thou shall not steal? unless you?re taking money from people because they have income/retirement/imported goods/land/etc.? Stealing is stealing and it's all wrong.

The topic of tax resistance was brought up in March

It isn't my fault that other people still pay property taxes to the evil government. They could all become activists.

You're right. If there is a large movement to stop paying property taxes, and the taxes just increase, the people who still pay taxes shouldn't complain. It's their fault that they didn't choose to join the movement.

I?m all for this movement. I see four possible outcomes.

• A. A large group of people (let?s say it?s 1000) decide to stop paying property taxes. They agree to ignore any warning letters from the gov?t (and that is all they agree to). The gov?t, not having the competence, work ethic, efficiency, etc. to capture 1000 people, decide not to go after them. Taxes increase, and this inspires more people to join the movement, and the tax is eventually ignored/formally repealed.
• B. Same as ?A?, but the gov?t does somehow manage to capture all 1000 people. As soon as the police come, they utilize Canario non-compliance. Becoming political prisoners inspires more people to join the movement.
• C. Same as ?A?, but they also agree to forcibly repel any government agent that pursues them for not paying the tax. Not wanting to have to arrest a person willing to use deadly force against them, (and then have to repeat the process 999 times) the police decide not to pursue any of them (either that or there will be a lot less police officers in NH). Preferably, this would lead to a lot of police officers quitting their jobs (out of fear) and no blood would have to be shed at all.
  
• D. The movement?s leaders are captured/killed and the movement collapses.

Tax resistance sounds like a really good idea. Money is the food of the state. Hopefully outcome ?A? will be sufficient to make a difference, but certainly don?t rule out outcome ?C?. I?m not thrilled about the idea of killing people (especially if they belong to a big, powerful gang like the police) but if 999 other people were willing to do, it I sure would be willing to do it (how?s that for an extreme first post, LOL). But try passive resistance first and see if that works- if not, then maybe using force is a good option. One piece of advice I have to the people in this movment- don't establish leaders. If you don't have an official leader, then the gov't won't be able to crush the movement just by killing a few of the members.

I can?t wait to get into all this activism (hope to move to NH by 2020); there?s so much cool stuff you can do that doesn?t involve voting. It sure is great that there are people with the guts to stand up like this. I can?t say I think they chose a good meeting place, but then again, maybe that just shows how much guts they have.

Taxpayers are a lot like the ants in ?A Bug?s Life?. If enough people stopped paying taxes, the gov?t would be powerless to make us continue paying taxes.

[error]

You can rule out D. There are no leaders here!

(Actually I think Shorty Dawkins is the leader, but I'm not sure...)

And why wait until 2020 to move? By then you'll have missed all the fun!

[cathleeninnh]

More realistically, with intimidation, many of the resistors will cave and pay. Some will hold out and get nabbed. It will be nasty enough to instill fear among observers. A few others will be motivated to join the movement and the cycle begins again.

Cathleen

[Russell Kanning]

any and all of the scenarios will happen before there are 1000.
a few will forcibly resist
a few will go revenge of red chief on them
a few will cave

[Raineyrocks]

Okay please bear with me as I ask some questions, remember I'm new at this.
Our property tax is tied in with the monthly mortgage so how do we stop paying it?
Doesn't your house get taken away if you don't pay property tax?

A. A large group of people (let?s say it?s 1000) decide to stop paying property taxes. They agree to ignore any warning letters from the gov?t (and that is all they agree to). The gov?t, not having the competence, work ethic, efficiency, etc. to capture 1000 people, decide not to go after them. Taxes increase, and this inspires more people to join the movement, and the tax is eventually ignored/formally repealed.

I like this idea but I think Cathleen is 100 correct with the outcome; they'll make examples out of a few and then others (hate to say I'd probraly be one of them) would cave in out of fear of being homeless.   I am sure if I didn't have kids to provide for I would have more guts to do this and stick with it no matter what.
I've often thought if everyone in this country stopped paying any taxes that would work, but will everyone? Probraly not.  I think 1000 people aren't enough, don't you?
I totally admit something has to be done to make a change but I don't know what.  My husband's job take taxes out of his paycheck every week so how would he be able to avoid that?  If we don't file then we don't get any of that money back, so what is the answer for that?  I'm not being sarcastic these are real questions I have.

[lordmetroid]

Easy... To not get taxed for your labour(The definition of income is "Somethinga that derives from property", hence IRS can tax you for doing business with a public corporation that gives you FRN bonds). To not get taxed, you decide to do private business to invited people using property exchange like it used to. Because there is no income(No FRNs) in this way of business there is no Income tax.

I know it's a far-out thought. But I will try to do business this way because the taxes are heavily progressed the more your income is(Communist manifesto demands for a "Heavy Progressive Income Tax"). I rather live by the 10 Amendements of the Bill of Rights than by the 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto.

[cathleeninnh]

There is no pretty answer.

You can try to get out of escrowing your insurance and taxes in order to pay(or not pay) them yourself.

You can increase the "exmptions" estimated on Rick's W-4, and that reduces(or eliminates) what is taken out of each paycheck. Your employer and the IRS don't care what is done here. It isn't official, just a tool to help people get close to what they may end up doing with a filing.

It isn't pretty because the government decides whether to get really nasty or not and they aren't consistent in their responses. You take your chances with not paying real estate or income taxes.

Cathleen

[CNHT]

You can rule out D. There are no leaders here!

As it should be. No one to blame, no one to go after.

The idea of everyone not paying is good but how are you going to get everyone to do it?
It's an all or nothing proposition.
After all, the people have the power, just in numbers.

[CNHT]

Our property tax is tied in with the monthly mortgage so how do we stop paying it?
Doesn't your house get taken away if you don't pay property tax?

Some people pay the tax in with the mortgage, but if your house was paid for you could opt not to do that.
I think that is the bank's way of saying, since you borrowed the money from them, they basically own a certain percentage of the home and want to be assured the taxes will be kept up, so they collect from you and then pay them for you.

I did not ever let them do that to me.

In NH it takes 3 years from the time you stop paying your property taxes to the time the home is repossessed.

If they don't repossess-resell the home outright, you will incur bigger charges because they add on some outrageous amount of interest like 12% or something.

So if you don't plan to win, you have to weigh the consequences, as Cathleen says, they are inconsistent with what they will do.

ON the other hand, if you get 1,000 people to a town meeting and start CUTTING and SLASHING the budget, you can reduce the property tax that way.
That to me is the easier method and the reason why we DON'T want an income tax, which cannot be controlled in such a way.
Getting people to town meetings therefore, you would think, would be easy right? I mean it's one or two nights of the year and is very important as I've said in other places on this forum, yet in a town of 13,000 voters, 70 people voted to raise the taxes on us, against the other 30 who showed up...and this determines what the other 19,900 out of 20,000 residents in this town have to do..

[Raineyrocks]

You can increase the "exmptions" estimated on Rick's W-4, and that reduces(or eliminates) what is taken out of each paycheck. Your employer and the IRS don't care what is done here. It isn't official, just a tool to help people get close to what they may end up doing with a filing.

It isn't pretty because the government decides whether to get really nasty or not and they aren't consistent in their responses. You take your chances with not paying real estate or income taxes.

Rick did take out some extra exemptions but he also is working and paying Mass. tax and I am pretty sure we can get most of that tax back when we file as a non-resident, right?  If I wasn't worried about the kids possibly ending up without a home it would be an easier decision because Rick and I could just go rent or something. 

[Raineyrocks]

ON the other hand, if you get 1,000 people to a town meeting and start CUTTING and SLASHING the budget, you can reduce the property tax that way.
That to me is the easier method and the reason why we DON'T want an income tax, which cannot be controlled in such a way.
Getting people to town meetings therefore, you would think, would be easy right? I mean it's one or two nights of the year and is very important as I've said in other places on this forum, yet in a town of 13,000 voters, 70 people voted to raise the taxes on us, against the other 30 who showed up...and this determines what the other 19,900 out of 20,000 residents in this town have to do..

How can I find out when these meetings are held, do they have a name for it like tax meetings or something?  My gosh I can't believe more people don't show up and speak out against property tax and why in the world would 70 people vote to raise taxes, they have to pay more too, right?  Sorry I'm full of questions again; when you go to these meetings do you raise your hand and have to have something like a list of why we don't want property taxes raised?  Could I find out when the meetings are and go around the neighborhood and talk people into showing up and speaking out against the property tax raise? 

[cathleeninnh]

If you up your exemptions a lot and then try to legitimately(?) file, you could be in for a surprise and owe money. Upping exemptions to 20 on the W-4 would be how you would eliminate the withholding and then NOT file.

Cathleen

[Nat F]

Rick did take out some extra exemptions but he also is working and paying Mass. tax and I am pretty sure we can get most of that tax back when we file as a non-resident, right?  If I wasn't worried about the kids possibly ending up without a home it would be an easier decision because Rick and I could just go rent or something. 

A NH resident who works in MA gets just about nothing back when they file their MA non resident income tax return.  You can't even take advantage of many of the deductions that MA residents would be able to use, especially your NH property tax.  Get used to paying the 5.25% income tax with no representation in MA government.

-Nat