AK74?

[FTL_Ian]

As you can see, the AK-47 is clearly the assault rifle of choice for Undergrounders:



Is the AK-74 as reliable as the 47?  If so, it seems to be the better weapon.  Why choose the 47 over the 74?

[FTL_Ian]

Also, are 74s typically sold at gun shows in NH?  I don't like paperwork.

[Michael Fisher]

Alright, just wanted to make sure of that line of sight...

[attachment deleted by admin]

[aworldnervelink]

I'm standing a few feet behind Jim.... no worries.

[Tom Sawyer]

The main difference is the caliber.
    47     vs     74
7.62mm vs 5.45mm
   30 cal vs 22 cal approximately.

I would guess them to be equally reliable. Although I imagine the 74 is more expensive... lots of 47's made over the years by a lot of different countries.

Technically the ones in the picture aren't AK-47 but MAK-90, same gun just modified to meet the assault rifle ban.

[Dave Ridley]

The 47's 7.62 ammo has some kind of problem tho, correct?  I understand it tends to go right through bad guys without causing that much damage, almost like a sold point pistol round.    Is there a way around this problem or an ammo type which addresses it?   If so what does the superior ammo cost per round?

Typical AK-47 ammo is super cheap at like 18 cents a round....but I'm wondering if there is a more defense-friendly type of ammo you cant get.   someone correct me if I'm off base here...

Oh also what's the best way to use that type of round in hunting?

[FTL_Ian]

I read something about the ammo problem, Dada.  It appears the 5.45 has a "tumble" effect in the body that is supposed to be more destructive.

The 74 also has a longer effective range, from what I understand.

[KBCraig]

The 47's 7.62 ammo has some kind of problem tho, correct?
(...)
Oh also what's the best way to use that type of round in hunting?

Any FMJ ammunition (full metal jacket) tends to penetrate with very little expansion. People like to hype "Full Metal Jacket!" breathlessly as if it's some kind of superduper killer, but the truth is that common hunting ammunition is far deadlier than military ammo.

You can find 7.62x39 loaded with a variety of soft point or hollow point bullets suited for hunting. Trouble is, it's a low powered cartridge, pushing a 123-130 grain bullet at medium velocity. It's marginal for two-legged critters or medium whitetail deer, and only suitable at 75-100 yards or less. Not to mention, none of the AK variants are particularly accurate, and most states restrict magazine capacity to 5 or less while hunting.

Kevin

[MattLeft]

Ak-47's, and their variations/clones, are popular because they are affordable and durable weapons that meet the "battle rifle" concept.  AR-15's, Mini-14's, and other 5.56mm rifles, although popular, are seen as inferior weapons when placed against a 7.62mm rifle.  FN-FAL's, H&K's G-90 (I think that's right), the M-1 Garand...these are seen by many in the know to be far preferable.  Most are also expensive as hell, which leads to the popularity of the AK-47.

At the expense of advertising the Free State Wyoming, Boston T. Party's book Molon Labe!, in addition to being one helluva inspirational book, goes into the theory and utilization of the battle rifle.  I believe he also has a non-fiction manual devoted entirely to this topic.

[aries]

myself I've got an SKS. Same caliber, a bit more power (I think), and older.

[Barterer]

I like the SKS too.. they're beautiful.   I have a Romanian SKS coming in the mail and can't wait to fire it.  The muzzle velocity and accuracy should be better than the AK47 (due to slightly longer barrel and distance between the sights) while sacrificing some portability/lightness.  Not that any of these rifles are that accurate.. I'll be happy if I can hit a pie plate at 75 yards. 

[citizen_142002]

Ian, the ammunition is quite a bit cheaper for the AK-47, than the 74. Namely because the AK-47 and SKS are employed by governments and armed individuals around the world.

Mechanically, about 75% of the parts are interchangeable between the two guns. They are both very reliable, but the loose mechanical tolerances that make them virtually malfunction free impede accuracy.

The Soviets changed to the 5.45X39 cartridge in response to the NATO 5.56X45 cartridge. The theory that militaries were adopting at the time was a shoot to wound philosophy. The idea that by wounding the enemy it took a couple guys out of combat because others had to care for him. That might have made sense if there had ever been a European theatre war between the super powers, but it kind of sucks in today's battlefield.

These small cartridges can tumble on contact, but often times they just cruise right through. Given that the M-16 has been called a poodle shooter, and given that the soviet cartridge is even more diminutive, I think I would prefer an AK-47.

If you want to use a small caliber battle rifle, then you should have one which is accurate. I would recomend an AR-15 over the AK-74 for a tactical piece.

Dada, you actually stated the opposite of what's going on. The 5.56MM goes right through people, whereas the 7.62 is usually enough to do the job at short-medium range. US forces in Iraq have sometimes been taking AK-47s off of the insurgents, because many times they have to shoot the enemy multiple times with the 5.56, before they go down.

None of the cartridges I mentioned are terrible high powered. You necessarily have to sacrifice cartridge size when you want a high capacity weapon that is small enough to utilize in close quarters.

If you want a battle rifle that is more effective at 400 yards, or one that can take out barriers and engine blocks, you might want to consider one of the following cartridge/ weapon combos.
AR-15 variants in the 6.8MM SPC
M-14/G-3/or CETME style rifles in 7.62X51 NATO
A 7.62X54R Soviet, or .30-06

[money dollars]

just to be anal.....the rifles yall are talking about are semi-auto AK clones. A true AK would have full auto. You can also get an AK clone in .308 and .223.

I wouldn't bother talking about AK-47 vs. AK-74....just consider it an AK, and then decide what caliber you want.

7.62x39 is probably the cheapest AK ammo around, but the price is coming up...there are also 75 and 100 rd drum magazines in 7.62x39. I don't think other caliber AKs have drum magazines. Also the price of 7.62x39 mags tend to be about half the price of other caliber mags.

small caliber battle rifle

better to use the term assault rifle

Not that any of these rifles are that accurate.. I'll be happy if I can hit a pie plate at 75 yards. 

They are accurate enough that you should be able to hit a pie plate at 200 yards...and a human at 300....

Ak-47's, and their variations/clones, are popular because they are affordable and durable weapons that meet the "battle rifle" concept.

nope, assault rifle concept...

AR-15's, Mini-14's, and other 5.56mm rifles, although popular, are seen as inferior weapons when placed against a 7.62mm rifle. FN-FAL's, H&K's G-90 (I think that's right), the M-1 Garand...these are seen by many in the know to be far preferable.  Most are also expensive as hell, which leads to the popularity of the AK-47.

The AK-47 is 7.62x39(assault rifle). FAL's HK-91's are 7.62x51(battle rifle)

At the expense of advertising the Free State Wyoming, Boston T. Party's book Molon Labe!, in addition to being one helluva inspirational book, goes into the theory and utilization of the battle rifle.  I believe he also has a non-fiction manual devoted entirely to this topic.

Boston's Gun Bible

Also, are 74s typically sold at gun shows in NH?  I don't like paperwork.

.
You still need to do the paperwork at a gunshow if you buy from an FFL. Most people selling at guns shows are FFLs. You need to find a private party that wants to sell....finding one at a gun show is a crap shoot.

Dada, you actually stated the opposite of what's going on. The 5.56MM goes right through people, whereas the 7.62 is usually enough to do the job at short-medium range. US forces in Iraq have sometimes been taking AK-47s off of the insurgents, because many times they have to shoot the enemy multiple times with the 5.56, before they go down.

I have been doing some ballistic testing.....it's all about the ammo....

video of ballistic tests with .223 FMJ and blue glaser saftey slug shot at watermelons with an AR-15

[FTL_Ian]

I expect a real full auto AKM is somewhat hard to find in the US?

[money dollars]

Parts are available to convert a semi auto....and it is easy to do...but full auto tends to sucks....

If one wants to pay 10-15k and $200 for a tax stamp, and jump thru some hoops, a civi can get a legal one. If you have the cash/credit, a seller can be found.