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Private Protection Agency

Started by outlaw4freedom, December 30, 2006, 08:13 PM NHFT

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outlaw4freedom

Listened to FTL the other night when they were talking about some of the insane people who get let into our government protection agencies, and talking with friends about voluntary free market solutions to government programs, the alternative to certain 'services' some people seem to expect are not so clear.  For instance: conflict resolution.

Conflicts regarding private property (You steal my car) are pretty straightforward. Property can be given back or repaid (restitution). There are government agencies that provide small claims courts, arbitration, etc. That can be handed over to the private sector easily. You would research and contract with a protection agency who has a mission statement that goes along with how you want to be treated (what rights you want protected) and at what cost. Different agencies will have different services(high tech, low tech methods), different price brackets(economy vs full featured). Their reputation of how they protect their customers should/would be a selling point (testimonials). I can imagine it out that far pretty well...

But what about taking someones life? Or any crime that cannot be settled soley with monetary matters? How could violence be handled? And whats the difference between an organization "arresting" or "kidnapping" someone. 

My thoughts on the issues:
I don't believe in killing killers, because if killing is wrong in the first place, isn't killing in the second place wrong too? I'm for a restitution based system, because criminals will think twice if they know they really have to pay for the crime they commit. In my perfect little libertarian world, everyone would be contracted to a protection agency of their choice(so long as they feel they need protection). Just as each of us research the products we buy and the places we shop (to some extent at least) we would be able to pick and choose the services and features, specific details of rights and how they are protected, laws you agree to abide by, etc. That way, you actually do have a Social Contract, yet you choose which you wish to obligate yourself to. 


What are your thoughts?

Michael Fisher

This is how private law works. Examples of this can be researched through ancient Ireland's 1,000-year history, and medieval Iceland's 300-year history, of truly free markets and private law in the absence of monopolies of force.

PowerPenguin

Let's do it. I don't propose a total, "traditional" solution. This isn't the time or place for that now. What would be a good idea would be a local community defense force to watch the cops. Think Black Panthers but without the socialism and force initialization.

David

You asked what is the difference between arresting and kidnapping?  Assuming the arrest was for a victimless crime, there isn't any fundamental difference.  The problem, is the arresting folks, outnumber us, outfinace us, and important, they out gun us.  There isn't much we can do to the gov't criminals.  That is the reason I have been advocating that the best we may be able to do, is to get them to look the other way.  Ignore us. 

I've thought a lot about this, and haven't yet figured out a way around the gov't.  They will actively persecute vigil anteism. 
Many of the more serious crimes will likely result in a shunning of the criminal.  Why?  We will never, while the gov't persecutes us, be able to force criminals to pay their debt to the victim, so the best we may be able to do is protect ourselves from future actions of the criminal.  "But shunning will not work in todays society, they will just go somewhere else."  It is true that the criminal will go elsewere.  But the goal needs to be self protection first, then try to publicize the person and his reputation to help protect others. 

David

There is one possible effective way to confront the gov't. 
Use your body. 
I'm not suggesting fist fights or karate, but human blockades. 
Something like this was suggested in discussion of the property tax rebellion.  When the gov't transfers the house/property, ignore the notices.  Eventually the gov't will see the need to force the owner off the property.  The owner and helpers should try to never leave the property alone.  When the gov't tries to evict the owner and helpers/tenents, resist by sitting down, or going limp.  Make 'em work to evict.  Continue to try to reoccupie the house, and force the gov't to continue arresting. 
;D

outlaw4freedom

Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 30, 2006, 10:07 PM NHFT
This is how private law works. Examples of this can be researched through ancient Ireland's 1,000-year history, and medieval Iceland's 300-year history, of truly free markets and private law in the absence of monopolies of force.

I've been looking for articles about Ireland's 1000 year Statelessness... Can't find anything substantial about it.... could you post links or email?

outlaw4freedom (at) gmail (dot) com.

thanks :)

Michael Fisher

Quote from: outlaw4freedom on January 01, 2007, 06:43 PM NHFT
Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 30, 2006, 10:07 PM NHFT
This is how private law works. Examples of this can be researched through ancient Ireland's 1,000-year history, and medieval Iceland's 300-year history, of truly free markets and private law in the absence of monopolies of force.

I've been looking for articles about Ireland's 1000 year Statelessness... Can't find anything substantial about it.... could you post links or email?

outlaw4freedom (at) gmail (dot) com.

thanks :)

Read Lloyd's post:
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=1949.msg30657#msg30657

cyberdoo78

Quote from: David on December 31, 2006, 02:08 AM NHFT
There is one possible effective way to confront the gov't. 
Use your body. 
I'm not suggesting fist fights or karate, but human blockades. 
Something like this was suggested in discussion of the property tax rebellion.  When the gov't transfers the house/property, ignore the notices.  Eventually the gov't will see the need to force the owner off the property.  The owner and helpers should try to never leave the property alone.  When the gov't tries to evict the owner and helpers/tenents, resist by sitting down, or going limp.  Make 'em work to evict.  Continue to try to reoccupie the house, and force the gov't to continue arresting. 
;D


I wouldn't mind using handcuffs to cuff us all together and to the property in question. I'm not a violent person by nature so I would prefer to talk it out and figure it out peacefully.

David

I'm not violent either.  Childhood indiscretions aside,  :-[ I no longer wish to hurt anyone, even in defense if possible.  I would much rather avoid confrontation, then try to deal with it afterwards.   :)

cyberdoo78

Quote from: David on May 17, 2007, 12:04 AM NHFT
I'm not violent either.  Childhood indiscretions aside,  :-[ I no longer wish to hurt anyone, even in defense if possible.  I would much rather avoid confrontation, then try to deal with it afterwards.   :)

While I agree with the principle of what you are saying, it is in mans nature to do what is best or seemingly best for him. So long as others continue to initiate force against others, I will continue to believe that one has the right and obligation to protect ones self, family, and community.

I however look at things slightly differently then others might on the issue. I believe that you must first issue notice to the other individual who is initiating force against you of your intent to use defensive force and that you alone choose when to use it. This way it is a "contract", I agree to allow you to use force against me, in return you agree to allow me the oppertunity to stop you by either hurting you or killing you. We also agree that if you should decide to not use force against me and in turn attempt to resolve the situtation by talking it out, I agree to discuss it. However, I can not and will not be compelled to do that, which I have not previously agreed to.

As I read more and more about anarchy, I find myself allying myself with the idea of the anarch-capitalist. But I haven't really gotten that far through the topic of anarchy with all the different variations so I may find myself agreeing with something different.

I don't know, this is still new to me and I'm trying to figure my way through it.

David

I like your approach to defense.   :)

cyberdoo78

Its a logical approach to defense, I think at least. I honestly would love it if we could live in a world where no one forced anyone to do anything they don't want to. Sadly we don't, and we have to make due with what we do have to work with. When the government uses enforcers and grants them rights and protections the common citizen doesn't have, then the common citizen has the right to stand up and defy the orders of the enforcers.

When I say live free or die, I honestly mean it. Living as a slave to me is no longer acceptable. If given the option of life in prison, or death, I would take death without a single thought about it. I love my life, I love my family, and love my liberty, but when my own government treats me as if I'm the servant and they are the master, in clear defiance of the contract laid out before us, then I see no alternative then to fight back using what ever methods I have at my disposal.

I will talk to a enforcer and try to get them to see they are in the wrong, however if they attempt to arrest me, they will have to do so by the use of force. In doing so, they will be the initiator of force and I am justified in using equal or superior force against them, at my discretion. I will always give them notice that if they do X, that I will do Y. To me that is fair and just warning, that the actions they choose to persue are left up to them. If they choose X, then the will get Y. Again, its a verbal contract in its most rawest form.