But seriously . . . atheism?

[Braddogg]

Mike, I was a Christian for 20 years.

...

All Scripture (Old Testament) is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16).  Kill those who disobey priests (Deut 17:12-13).  Anyone who curses their mother or father must be put to death (Exodus 21:17).

Apparently, you never learned the meaning of the New Testament relative to the Old Testament in your entire 20-year Christian walk. If you did, you would know by now that the law does not apply any longer, only the commandments. Citing old statutes makes you look like an atheist pulling Bible quotes out of context, which is a pretty accurate description of the truth.

Reread the 2 Timothy quote.  The OT is inspired by God and useful as a method of correcting others.  Did Jesus come to end obedience to the law?  Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it -- to add to it (Matthew 5:17) and to subtract the silly rules the Pharisees developed (around things like handwashing).  The closest we get to an abrogation of the LAWS in the OT is the first part of John 8 (which is, according to scholarly opinion, not authentic), but the point there seems to be Jesus' divinity, and that Jesus, as God, reserves the right to be merciful.  The passage says Jesus wrote on the ground with his finger (v. 6-8).  The only other place in the Bible, according to one pastor (I haven't done the research myself), where someone is said to have written with their finger is Exodus 31:18, where God is said to have written the Ten Commandments with his finger.

I've had countless discussions with fellow Christians.  I've read the New Testament several times.  A few months ago I wrote a 10-page exegesis on Romans 13 for a world-renowned Pauline scholar.  Another research topic I've worked on is how Leo Tolstoy uses Scripture in his works (especially <i>The Gospels in Brief</i>).

I've read the New Testament several times in two languages in only my past one year as a Christian. If you've only read the New Testament several times in 20 years, that says volumes about your complete lack of knowledge of the book.

I didn't keep track of the number of times . . . was several just bad word choice on my part?  I've read it a bunch.  There was a month a few years ago where I read Matthew every day.  I've listened to hours upon hours of exegetical preaching verse by verse of the Scriptures.  I know the book.  Granted, only in one language  . . . .

Your one 10-page book report on one chapter of the New Testament

Exegesis, not book report.  Significant difference, and you know that.  The belittling . . . .

to a nameless person

Pheme Perkins, editor of the New Oxford Annotated Bible (NRSV).  She seemed impressed with the scholarship.

does not make you wise in the Word, nor does your knowledge of Leo Tolstoy's Christian perspective. None of this gives you the credibility necessary to completely lie about the meaning of the Bible and be believed by anyone.

I've really hit some buttons.  I can't believe you're going to turn this into a pissing contest.

You keep telling me I'm lying . . . what's your proof?

Again:

Peter says that Christians are to live good lives and good deeds (1 Pet 2:12).  Then, commands everyone to "honor the king" (v. 17) and for slaves to obey their masters (v.18), and that honoring the king and obeying your masters are good deeds.

[Minsk]

I don't care what side you're on, someone needs to petition God for a combined and easy-reader version of the various texts authored in His name. Given the hundreds who spent their lifetimes studying such writings come up with completely different results, I find it entertaining every time someone claims the One And Only True Path. Oh the unlimited ego and self-importance they must possess, to claim to know the mind of God.

Your faith is not in God. Your faith is in yourself.

[eques]

Michael, I don't know you from Adam.  Honest.  But are you really sure that you've changed all that much?  I mean, seriously?  I'm not reading anything like compassion from you at all... instead, I'm picking up an "I'm right, you're wrong, shut up" vibe in your latest postings.

Your worldview is based mostly on feelings. Mine is not. I was born very different from you, and that may be what you're picking up on. Regardless of what I have to say, the "vibes" of my posts will most likely always annoy you.

Mike, you have vacillating standards for "feelings" versus "evidence."  In any case, you're preaching compassion out of one side of your mouth, while insults and condescension come out of the other.

If you want a big clue as to why I stopped believing in Christianity, take a good look at yourself.  You're a prime example as to the phoniness I wanted to escape.  How can I believe in a religion which produces utter phonies and hypocrites?

Now, I'm sure that, outside of discussions about religion, you're a decent guy.  Why wouldn't you be?  Right now, however, you're coming off as a total asshat.  I'm also pretty sure that you just don't care, because you know you're right, and the truth will eventually vindicate you, or something like that.

I don't know what you mean by "born very different," so I have no idea how that relates to the discussion.  What do the circumstances of your birth have to do with any of what has been discussed?

[Edit] - This occurred to me later, after writing this post: it is unfair for me to put all Christians into the same camp.  I know that there are those who truly do strive to live by the spirit of the law and not the letter.

[cathleeninnh]

 
   

 

[Braddogg]

   

 

That's a pretty good summary of the past 13 pages, on all sides 

[eques]

   

 

That's a pretty good summary of the past 13 pages, on all sides 

That also applies to this thread:

Main thread for Ed and Elaine Brown vs the evil IRS

[Rocketman]

Epicureanism, that 2,300-year-old hypocritical deist nonsense, strikes again. So Karl Marx was right after all. 

[. . .]

And you expect anyone to take you seriously with such a super-judgemental, oversimplifying, immature, and insulting tongue?

That is not an opinion, it is a fact. Epicureanism is hypocritical deist nonsense exploited by Karl Marx. Period.

A very enlightened analysis... 

[Rocketman]

I don't care what side you're on, someone needs to petition God for a combined and easy-reader version of the various texts authored in His name. Given the hundreds who spent their lifetimes studying such writings come up with completely different results, I find it entertaining every time someone claims the One And Only True Path. Oh the unlimited ego and self-importance they must possess, to claim to know the mind of God.

Your faith is not in God. Your faith is in yourself.

Minsk,

There is an easy-reader version.  It's called "creation."  A true gift from God, not men who are trying to control humanity by appealing to divine authority.

[eques]

I don't care what side you're on, someone needs to petition God for a combined and easy-reader version of the various texts authored in His name. Given the hundreds who spent their lifetimes studying such writings come up with completely different results, I find it entertaining every time someone claims the One And Only True Path. Oh the unlimited ego and self-importance they must possess, to claim to know the mind of God.

Your faith is not in God. Your faith is in yourself.

Minsk,

There is an easy-reader version.  It's called "creation."  A true gift from God, not men who are trying to control humanity by appealing to divine authority.

Uh oh, man, that was post '666' for you.  That MUST mean that it's a message from Satan!

[Rocketman]

I don't care what side you're on, someone needs to petition God for a combined and easy-reader version of the various texts authored in His name. Given the hundreds who spent their lifetimes studying such writings come up with completely different results, I find it entertaining every time someone claims the One And Only True Path. Oh the unlimited ego and self-importance they must possess, to claim to know the mind of God.

Your faith is not in God. Your faith is in yourself.

Minsk,

There is an easy-reader version.  It's called "creation."  A true gift from God, not men who are trying to control humanity by appealing to divine authority.

Uh oh, man, that was post '666' for you.  That MUST mean that it's a message from Satan!

LOL!

Satan has always been in cahoots with deists -- just ask Michael Fisher!

[Raineyrocks]

  

 

[MaineShark]

Right down to one of the ten commandments "thou shalt not kill", okay no exclusions, exceptions,ect. Then why did god command people in the old testament to sacrifice sheep?  That's just one example of where god commanded people to kill in the bible, even if it is just a sheep, there are no exceptions to the commandment thou shalt not kill, right?

To be fair, it doesn't actually say "thou shalt not kill."  That's a modern (relatively-speaking) mis-translation.  The actual Hebrew text says "murder," not "kill."  Presumably, divinely-ordained killing cannot be murder, at least to a believer.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus

If I am able to prevent evil, but I don't choose to do so, am I malevolent?

Joe

[Pat K]

If I am able to prevent evil, but I don't choose to do so, am I malevolent?

Joe

Well no offense Joe, but while I am sure you are a good guy
you are not an all knowing all powerful being, for whom stopping
evil would be no big thing.

[cathleeninnh]

 Did Mike have a meltdown? He hasn't been on since the last post.

Cathleen

[Russell Kanning]

Recent converts are always the most passionate.  As Michael and Braddogg illustrate, this works both ways... they seem frustrated with one another for thinking what the other thought his entire life until recently.

It is funny.
Actually ... I have been more passionate in my interest in following Christ's actual words in recent years ... a little more all the time. Maybe I have had some sort of "conversion".
I don't understand some of the anger in this thread ... I might be missing something. I don't think I have read it all.