Mexicans fly their flag above the United States' flag

[lordmetroid]

And it is not 'nationalism' to want your country to be defined and separate, especially from other more socialist countries.

It certainly isn't, I found it troubling that so many people think Patriotism is equal to Nationalism after 9/11.
Nationalism is when you support your country blindly, it was a tool of the rulers to easier gather an army.
Patriotism is when you asa sovereign stand up for you as a sovereign, and in USA that has certain symbols attached to it like the constitution and the American flag. But that is not how it was used after 9/11. Fucking sheeple!

[Tom Sawyer]

I can't believe that with all the current goings on...  that a picture of high school kid's mischief (from a year ago) can be called an "brazen act of war". I bet this picture was taken during the bruhaha rally against the mass deportations that these folks friends and relatives were fearful of. The same time school principals tried to lock down the schools to prevent these kids from going to the rallies.

Joey when you grow up maybe it will be useful to have discussions about some of the issues brought up here. Suffice it say that I remember the Watts riots and watched DC burn with race riots... I remember the fear and hatred from all sides in those dark days.

Fools (on both sides) that whip this crap up are helping create evil...

Jane when you smile you are a very nice person... however all this right wing, nationalist, reactionary scaremongering makes you look like the right wing version of Bill Grennon. Talking about what you are for and how folks can help you accomplish it, goes a lot further than calling people you don't agree with "One Worlders". Your health suffers from getting inflamed over this nonsense.

Caleb, try and remember that there is a big difference between our current government and our country... some folks won't understand your position.

Signed,
Crybaby Roger

[Lloyd Danforth]

Eloquent Roger!   Not so, my 'box of rocks', so, I removed it.

[Braddogg]

It's like many liberty-minded folks have a block when it comes to immigration and borders.  They can see that government is stone evil in 95% of the issues, but when it comes to immigration and borders . . . .

A bunch of high schoolers living in California raising a piece of cloth and flying the US flag upside down doesn't matter too much.  It doesn't harm me.  If Keene were to raise the UN flag over town hall, it would only be troublesome because the government of Keene would then start oppressing its subjects more.  The trouble is in the oppressing, not in the blue-and-white flag.

And that's how I feel about immigration and borders and government in general.  That 435 people are called "Congressmen" isn't the problem, it's that those people then restrict our liberties.  If they called themselves Congressmen and just had tea all day and didn't get a public salary, then that is no problem to me.  It is in ACTIONS, not SYMBOLS, where good and evil exist.  There is no evil in the Mexican flag.  There is only evil in Mexicans stealing private property.

[eques]

So... they flew a symbol of one oppressive government over a symbol of another oppressive government.

People talk about the sovereignty of the nation, but the problem is that national sovereignty isn't legitimate and can only lead to the annihilation of individual rights.

The sovereignty we should be concerned with is our own individual sovereignty.

That being said, if gangs are attacking otherwise private property, of course that's wrong.

There's room for "immigration is illegitimate" and "gangs shouldn't attack private property" in a consistent worldview.

Individual sovereignty does NOT mean that we all run to our own respective self-sufficient cabins in the woods armed to the teeth (though there are some that would doubtless wish to do so).

The fight against more taxes is a part of building up individual sovereignty (i.e., starving the beast), but it has to go further than that, philosophically.  Otherwise, you're claiming that there's some aspect of yourself that you have relegated to the whims of somebody else.

[Rochelle]

A bunch of high schoolers living in California raising a piece of cloth and flying the US flag upside down doesn't matter too much.  It doesn't harm me.

Quoted because it bears repeating and is the reason behind my lighthearted post before the thread went downhill.
This group of people--They have a name but it's some sort of indian name that implies that the land really belongs to the indians it was stolen from and should be returned, etc. but they fly the Mexican flag which....makes no sense. Furthermore, they're a rather small, minority group that don't really matter in the long run. That's why I don't worry about it.

Or do some people here really think it should be illegal to fly a flag outside of your house that isn't an American flag? What if I want to fly an Irish flag on St. Patrick's day or the day of Irish Independence because of my Irish ancestry? Should that be illegal? I love my country, but the day I'm forced to love IT and nothing else is the day I'll have to stop.

[aries]

i dont care

do you mind the gadsden flag over the american flag?

[Quantrill]

To Caleb:

That's strange.  I've never met someone who was born in America. 

I was born in America, like it or not.  WE (me and you and everyone else here) have a government, like it or not.  You seem to be of the opinion that we should entirely abolish the government and let Darwinism rule.  If things come to that I certainly won't complain, but that's not my goal, nor do I think that's the goal of the FSP.  I want to reduce the size of OUR government.  I want Big Brother to stay out of my business.  I want Big Brother to take less money out of my wallet (yes, he will always get a piece and I have no problem with that.  we should not abolish taxes, we should reduce them).  I don't want people losing what freedoms we have left because they ingested an illegal substance or engaged in some consensual act that is politcally incorrect. 

And I really don't understand the anger in your posts.  I've noticed it before and understand every individual has their own opinions, but I am NOT your enemy.  We probably agree on 90% of the issues and you attack me like I called your mother a name.  Such immaturity will not do much to help your cause, noble or not. 

Notice, you called yourself "an American" not "a Granite-stater."  So you are a proponent of big, centralized government, Quantril.  You ought to love the New World Order.  One hundred years from now, your great grandchildren will call themselves "citizens of the world," and people who think like you will be labelled "radical extremists".

Sigh.  I am an American.  I have yet to move "home" to the Granite State, but even then I will still be an American (as well as a Granite-stater).  And if the NWO comes about I will still claim to be an American, born and raised.  Nowhere do I claim to be a proponent of "big, centralized government".  We have a national government, states' rights and individual rights.  A quick review of the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights will verify this.  OUR SYSTEM IS NOT PERFECT AND NEVER WILL BE.  But I still think it's the best one in existence.  And the point of the FSP is to improve this country and regain lost freedoms as our Constitution is used as a piece of toilet paper by our politicians daily.

If you hate your government you are entitled to that opinion, but my question is - what exactly do you want?  No government (local or national)?  Kick it tribal-style?   Daniel Quinn has tried to push that line of thinking in his books.  Corporate Avenger has some music along these lines.  How 'bout we take things one step at at time, though.  Do you not think we should start by putting people in office who will actually obey the U.S. Constitution?  Or is the plan to yell at people who disagree with us thereby giving the impression that WE (the FSP) are irrational?  If you want no government at all, a good first step would be to reduce the size of the current government.  Then worry about the rest...

[CNHT]

This group of people--They have a name but it's some sort of indian name that implies that the land really belongs to the indians it was stolen from and should be returned, etc. but they fly the Mexican flag which....makes no sense. Furthermore, they're a rather small, minority group that don't really matter in the long run. That's why I don't worry about it.

If you do some reading you will see they are not a small minority and are terrorizing people on the border. Mexicans are natives, that is to say they do not call themselves 'Indians' only in the sense that they are native North Americans. However the US bought the land, fair and square and they do not have the right to try to take it away from innocent homeowners.

Or do some people here really think it should be illegal to fly a flag outside of your house that isn't an American flag? What if I want to fly an Irish flag on St. Patrick's day or the day of Irish Independence because of my Irish ancestry? Should that be illegal? I love my country, but the day I'm forced to love IT and nothing else is the day I'll have to stop.

It's not about flying a flag. But since you missed the point the first time around, I'm not going to explain it again.
You can read about Aztlan on the internet...anywhere.

And thank your lucky stars you live way up here in NH where no one (except maybe the tax man) will try to steal your property at the point of a rifle.

[CNHT]

I can't believe that with all the current goings on...  that a picture of high school kid's mischief (from a year ago) can be called an "brazen act of war". I bet this picture was taken during the bruhaha rally against the mass deportations that these folks friends and relatives were fearful of. The same time school principals tried to lock down the schools to prevent these kids from going to the rallies.

This has nothing to do with a school, but if you insist on ignoring the symbolic stuff of the bigger problem...well not much I can do to convince you that a country needs to be sovereign and that there is no crime in wanting that! Why must it be that we have to let others bash us just because you don't like our gov't? That's insane.

Joey when you grow up maybe it will be useful to have discussions about some of the issues brought up here. Suffice it say that I remember the Watts riots and watched DC burn with race riots... I remember the fear and hatred from all sides in those dark days.

That was quite a different thing! That was not a gov't sanctioned coup. It was a bunch of unhappy people...no comparison. And if Joey believes in sovereignty, just because you don't, why does he have to 'grow up'? Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Fools (on both sides) that whip this crap up are helping create evil...

As Quantrill said, why is there so much hatred and violence toward others who have different opinions? One can advocate sovereignty without having to be bashed for it. Otherwise, why bother? Why does anyone bother to come to NH?

Jane when you smile you are a very nice person... however all this right wing, nationalist, reactionary scaremongering makes you look like the right wing version of Bill Grennon.

For you to demonize someone as 'right wing nationalist right wing, nationalist, reactionary scaremongering' just because they are not politically correct makes you look left of Bernie Sanders. The shock of hearing libertarians be so politically correct is more than one can bear at times. Again, believing in SOVEREIGNTY and borders is not 'nationalism'...by any stretch and your use of the word in this situation is demonization, again, a very leftwing tactic that I am always dismayed to see 'libertarians' use when they don't like someone else's ideas. The things that are happening are happening. I haven't made it up. You can ignore them all you want.

Talking about what you are for and how folks can help you accomplish it, goes a lot further than calling people you don't agree with "One Worlders". Your health suffers from getting inflamed over this nonsense.

I hope to RETAIN US and NH sovereignty. And those who don't, want 'one world'. It's not too hard a concept to understand. What else would you call a 'world without borders'? If it's not a bad thing to be a 'one-worlder', then why is it considered so negative to say it? It happens to be my take/analysis on the result. Why does someone have to be demonized for their take on things?

Caleb, try and remember that there is a big difference between our current government and our country... some folks won't understand your position.
Signed,
Crybaby Roger

As for my 'smile', I have never met you so how would you even know if I am not some toothless old woman? I can still believe in sovereignty and be a 'very nice person'. For you to suggest I can't, means you are simply intolerant of that view. You may want to destroy our country, but I don't. I want to save it.

As for my health, since I have never met you and don't know you, how would you know what my health is doing or that it's 'inflamed' by expressing my opinion? I believe in what I believe in, and it doesn't upset me -- it's called conviction. Not nationalism! That is quite a stretch.

And you are right about bashing gov't vs country. And I'll say it again: every country has a right to have borders and sovereignty and we are losing ours to people who have admitted openly what they are doing. Nothing anyone made up...

If someone tells you they are about to sucker punch you, do you stand there and not duck???

[CNHT]

There is no evil in the Mexican flag.  There is only evil in Mexicans stealing private property.

Exactly...and that is what the movement stands for..... and those kids are showing themselves as part of the movement.

Just like we BURN UN flags, they RAISE the flag of the 'reconquistas'. We don't care about the stupid FLAG.
We do  need to take heed of the movement.

If people would only read what they say about THEMSELVES, I wonder, do they think they are not serious???

If you tell me you are going to punch me, do I stand there and wait to find out if you mean it? That's called stupidity.

I'm for non-agression but I am not going to be a pacifist if I'm being  attacked.
To sanction violence against Americans just because you hate our government, well that makes me afraid of you too.

[CNHT]

People talk about the sovereignty of the nation, but the problem is that national sovereignty isn't legitimate and can only lead to the annihilation of individual rights.

That has to be the dumbest thing I ever read. Sovereignty is not legitimate? So who then you do hope the US falls to? Do you think it is just going to lie fallow and not be taken over by 'someone' or 'something'?

I have no idea what you think sovereignty means, because God knows what they teach kids in schools these days. It looks to me like they have done a thorough anti-American brainswashing on them. It simply means we have the right to govern ourselves without interference from other countries and between the UN and land rights groups, we are losing it fast.

[CNHT]

This wouldn't bother me if it were on Joe Smith's private ranch in California. To each his own on that regard, but because it is a government school, our public laws -- i.e., the ones regulating flags -- should apply to those public schools.

The flag thing would be innocent if there were not these other things going on attached to it.
We flew many foreign flags in a ceremonial fashion to celebrate multicutluralism at my job. It was never about hostility as this is.

But none were flown in an attempt to show might and fright and scare people with some 'reconquista' movement.

You know, I've had this argument before with people who in reality will only let certain people into their homes or clubs.

I find that this attitude of 'give away the store' only works when it's someone else's stuff they are giving away.
Let their 'stuff' be in danger and you'll see the pacifism stop dead.

[CNHT]

i dont care

do you mind the gadsden flag over the american flag?

I don't have room to fly one over the other, I fly one at a time.

But my flying the Gadsden flag does not symbolize a movement to steal property from, Canadians, for example, does it???

If there were a movement of Americans to move into Canada and reclaim the land, and they had a flag and I flew it, I would think this would upset people in Canada and rightly so.

This is such a simple concept, I cannot understand what is so complicated about it.

[CNHT]

To Caleb:

That's strange.  I've never met someone who was born in America. 

I was born in America, like it or not.  WE (me and you and everyone else here) have a government, like it or not.  You seem to be of the opinion that we should entirely abolish the government and let Darwinism rule.  If things come to that I certainly won't complain, but that's not my goal, nor do I think that's the goal of the FSP.  I want to reduce the size of OUR government.  I want Big Brother to stay out of my business.  I want Big Brother to take less money out of my wallet (yes, he will always get a piece and I have no problem with that.  we should not abolish taxes, we should reduce them).  I don't want people losing what freedoms we have left because they ingested an illegal substance or engaged in some consensual act that is politcally incorrect. 

And I really don't understand the anger in your posts.  I've noticed it before and understand every individual has their own opinions, but I am NOT your enemy.  We probably agree on 90% of the issues and you attack me like I called your mother a name.  Such immaturity will not do much to help your cause, noble or not. 

Notice, you called yourself "an American" not "a Granite-stater."  So you are a proponent of big, centralized government, Quantril.  You ought to love the New World Order.  One hundred years from now, your great grandchildren will call themselves "citizens of the world," and people who think like you will be labelled "radical extremists".

Sigh.  I am an American.  I have yet to move "home" to the Granite State, but even then I will still be an American (as well as a Granite-stater).  And if the NWO comes about I will still claim to be an American, born and raised.  Nowhere do I claim to be a proponent of "big, centralized government".  We have a national government, states' rights and individual rights.  A quick review of the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights will verify this.  OUR SYSTEM IS NOT PERFECT AND NEVER WILL BE.  But I still think it's the best one in existence.  And the point of the FSP is to improve this country and regain lost freedoms as our Constitution is used as a piece of toilet paper by our politicians daily.

If you hate your government you are entitled to that opinion, but my question is - what exactly do you want?  No government (local or national)?  Kick it tribal-style?   Daniel Quinn has tried to push that line of thinking in his books.  Corporate Avenger has some music along these lines.  How 'bout we take things one step at at time, though.  Do you not think we should start by putting people in office who will actually obey the U.S. Constitution?  Or is the plan to yell at people who disagree with us thereby giving the impression that WE (the FSP) are irrational?  If you want no government at all, a good first step would be to reduce the size of the current government.  Then worry about the rest...

Don't give up Q..most people feel as you do and are working towards improving things here, not destroying them. And believing in sovereignty is not 'blind nationalism' by any stretch. Again I ask, why bother having private ownership if we don't have borders? Private ownership automatically means borders.
The reason why it has been so easy for the UN to take charge of our government lands, our school programs and such is the no borders attitude.

We need to have people in office who will, unlike Bush and Soros, NOT do what they are told by these NGOs and wealthy agitators who fund border wars just to further their agenda of homogenization and socialization of the world.

They too do not feel the need for sovereignty because their desire is to see everyone under one rule. Why aid and abet them by denouncing sovereignty?
And the political correctness that is used in these arguments is pretty sickening coming from so-called libertarians.