New 6-12 School in Keene - Monadnock area

[CNHT]

I would not want them experimenting on MY KID, just as they are doing in the public schools in the area of mind control and attitude shifts.

You don't need to let "them" experiment on your kid-- I'll gladly let "them" experiment on mine 

When you have to time you may consider reading about some nontraditional schools and their success. If we do, in education, what we've always done we're going get the same shit we always have -- It is time for some new ideas in education.

Well what is described on that website *IS* the 'same shit' we always have!

The public schools have been for some time now, a hotbed of feel-good experimentation and lack of real learning.
For example, letting the kids learn only what they want to learn will probably have them lacking in a lot of skills later on.

I think until people actually study up on what is going on in the public schools (costly, ineffective 'fad' learning) they would not know the difference.

You could send your kid to the public school and get the same old crap that website was describing, almost anywhere.

I have a little experience in that field so I'm not talking out of my hat....

[Tom Sawyer]

I feel that a private school can have the curriculum and approach that the participants want.

Good luck with your school.

[Rosie the Riveter]

I would not want them experimenting on MY KID, just as they are doing in the public schools in the area of mind control and attitude shifts.

You don't need to let "them" experiment on your kid-- I'll gladly let "them" experiment on mine 

When you have to time you may consider reading about some nontraditional schools and their success. If we do, in education, what we've always done we're going get the same shit we always have -- It is time for some new ideas in education.

Well what is described on that website *IS* the 'same shit' we always have!

The public schools have been for some time now, a hotbed of feel-good experimentation and lack of real learning.
For example, letting the kids learn only what they want to learn will probably have them lacking in a lot of skills later on.

I think until people actually study up on what is going on in the public schools (costly, ineffective 'fad' learning) they would not know the difference.

You could send your kid to the public school and get the same old crap that website was describing, almost anywhere.

I have a little experience in that field so I'm not talking out of my hat....

I am glad that you have a passion for education. I wish more people had experience and felt strongly about it as you do.

My feeling is that there is a big difference between my local public school's worksheets and direct instruction model and the sudbury model of a student-directed multiage learning environment where the teacher is a guide and resource.  Children have different learning styles and an instruction method that works for one child may not work for another. The most important factor is the child and their individual needs. Even a small change in the style of instruction may make a big difference to a child.

[CNHT]

I would not want them experimenting on MY KID, just as they are doing in the public schools in the area of mind control and attitude shifts.

You don't need to let "them" experiment on your kid-- I'll gladly let "them" experiment on mine 

When you have to time you may consider reading about some nontraditional schools and their success. If we do, in education, what we've always done we're going get the same shit we always have -- It is time for some new ideas in education.

Well what is described on that website *IS* the 'same shit' we always have!

The public schools have been for some time now, a hotbed of feel-good experimentation and lack of real learning.
For example, letting the kids learn only what they want to learn will probably have them lacking in a lot of skills later on.

I think until people actually study up on what is going on in the public schools (costly, ineffective 'fad' learning) they would not know the difference.

You could send your kid to the public school and get the same old crap that website was describing, almost anywhere.

I have a little experience in that field so I'm not talking out of my hat....

I am glad that you have a passion for education. I wish more people had experience and felt strongly about it as you do.

My feeling is that there is a big difference between my local public school's worksheets and direct instruction model and the sudbury model of a student-directed multiage learning environment where the teacher is a guide and resource.  Children have different learning styles and an instruction method that works for one child may not work for another. The most important factor is the child and their individual needs. Even a small change in the style of instruction may make a big difference to a child.

Except for the fact that some kids need more direct individual attention with less distraction, I have found that giving learners who have difficulty a good basis with directed learning is the launching pad for all the other pie in the sky methods that should be saved for later. (Group learning, etc)

For example in this video on Math instruction methods, she is right in that if you don't know your basic facts, you would have a hard time calculating anything with any other method. It is not to say that the other methods should not be explored, but there is no substitute for knowing the facts.

This is a good video on the math methods that are being used now. They do not encourage practice of any kind.

http://sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/if-you-care-about-education-watch-this.html

There are many books on what else is going on in the schools -- it's mostly about adjusting kids' attitudes and going against parental values in order for them to blend into the rest of the direction in which society is heading...a place you may not want your kids to go.

I know that some of the psychological methods used on teachers made my stomach turn. I felt we had finally really come to "1984..."

PS - Sole reliance on 'project-based learning' and 'whole language reading' methods have shown to be abject failures in 'progressive' states like California where this stuff was tried years ago.

[Rosie the Riveter]

Sole reliance on 'project-based learning' and 'whole language reading' methods have shown to be abject failures in 'progressive' states like California where this stuff was tried years ago.

Of course  -- that was my point that sole reliance on any one teaching method is folly. I am glad you agree that some kids need more direct instruction and others may learn better with less.

I'll look forward to checking out the link -- Thanks

[CNHT]

Sole reliance on 'project-based learning' and 'whole language reading' methods have shown to be abject failures in 'progressive' states like California where this stuff was tried years ago.

Of course you are right -- that was my point that sole reliance on any one teaching method is folly. I am glad you agree that that some kids need more direct instruction and others may learn better with less.

I'll look forward to checking out the link -- Thanks

What gets me is, with these fad methods, the smart kids will always survive, because they either can get the skills for themselves some other way, or their parents will fill in -- but the poorer less smart kids with less smart parents, will suffer, thus widening the gap for an educated society which the liberals are always screaming about.

To me this widens the gap between the rich and the poor -- those in the elite few who will do the controlling of the less fortunate masses, whom they will direct -- in where they can work, etc...

The elitists of the NWO have admitted that they think not everyone needs to know math, but they just need to know how to go along with the groupthink of the government so they can be kept down, without individual thoughts, and not rise up against the central authority who will then direct every part of their lives, for their own benefit.

This is a good site that keeps on top of things like that:

http://www.edwatch.org/

[Rosie the Riveter]

Sole reliance on 'project-based learning' and 'whole language reading' methods have shown to be abject failures in 'progressive' states like California where this stuff was tried years ago.

Of course you are right -- that was my point that sole reliance on any one teaching method is folly. I am glad you agree that that some kids need more direct instruction and others may learn better with less.

I'll look forward to checking out the link -- Thanks

What gets me is, with these fad methods, the smart kids will always survive, because they either can get the skills for themselves some other way, or their parents will fill in -- but the poorer less smart kids with less smart parents, will suffer, thus widening the gap for an educated society which the liberals are always screaming about.

To me this widens the gap between the rich and the poor -- those in the elite few who will do the controlling of the less fortunate masses, whom they will direct -- in where they can work, etc...

The elitists of the NWO have admitted that they think not everyone needs to know math, but they just need to know how to go along with the groupthink of the government so they can be kept down, without individual thoughts, and not rise up against the central authority who will then direct every part of their lives, for their own benefit.

This is a good site that keeps on top of things like that:

http://www.edwatch.org/

Thanks  for another link!

I agree --the government schools do a disservice to children at both ends of the spectrum.

[NHTA1]

It is really hard to know what CNHT's arguments are, she has contradicted herself in many of her replies. On one hand she is talking about school's indoctrinating students and on the other speaks out against Project Learning and eduction of the whole student, while posting links that clearly have a right wing agenda.

Project learning teaches many skills, the whole point of project learning is not to indoctrinate but to allow students to experience things for themselves.  It is clear that CNHT has very limited experience and chooses to espouse or discredit the virtues of teaching techniques she obviously was/is not competent enough to implement.

So many things that happen in a true education are not easily measured and certainly do not show up on standardized tests, made up by politicians whose agenda is to get out students to spout out strings of facts. Strings of facts are useless unless they are connected to and related to something relevant and useful.

I would suggest that CNHT with her "few" years of experience go into many classrooms where Project Learning and Education of the whole student is taking place and see for herself the deep learning that takes place.

THANK YOU JMSEEEL for one, putting yourself out there and opening yourself up to those who are ignorant and two, for being brave enough and caring enough about education to take on this huge endeavor.

Don't worry about those who will attack you because they lack the understanding of what you're trying to do, you can tell who they are when they attack one thing, then you answer with something they can't respond to , then go onto to something else.  I will support you in any way that I can.

[Rosie the Riveter]

Project learning teaches many skills, the whole point of project learning is not to indoctrinate but to allow students to experience things for themselves. 

So many things that happen in a true education are not easily measured and certainly do not show up on standardized tests, made up by politicians whose agenda is to get out students to spout out strings of facts. Strings of facts are useless unless they are connected to and related to something relevant and useful.

Your points that I quoted are good ones and I agree that everyone should spend time in schools where project based learning takes place to see the amazing work that children can do with a teacher as a guide rather than a direct deliverer of instruction. Though I think that attacking CNHT is counterproductive.  With-in education their are many schools of thought. The links that CNHT posted are one perspective on education and methods and her views are not unusual. I find it most informative to consider many perspectives and draw my own conclusions from research and experience. I find that all children are different and should be treated as such. No one size fits all.

[CNHT]

It is really hard to know what CNHT's arguments are, she has contradicted herself in many of her replies.

No contradictions, just things that should have you thinking. And because what I think does not fit any 'agenda', but what I think is best or right.

On one hand she is talking about school's indoctrinating students and on the other speaks out against Project Learning and eduction of the whole student, while posting links that clearly have a right wing agenda.

Right wing agenda, such as, keeping government out of our schools? Sounds to me if you aren't on board with that you clearly have a left-wing agenda.

Project learning teaches many skills, the whole point of project learning is not to indoctrinate but to allow students to experience things for themselves.

It's a failed system. Just look at California. It leaves out too much.

It is clear that CNHT has very limited experience and chooses to espouse or discredit the virtues of teaching techniques she obviously was/is not competent enough to implement.

That's a time worn excuse. Apparently every single teacher in California and in other places across the nation is incompetent? And, saying something doesn't work because the person was not able to implement it is attacking the person not the idea. Clearly left wing.

So many things that happen in a true education are not easily measured and certainly do not show up on standardized tests, made up by politicians whose agenda is to get out students to spout out strings of facts. Strings of facts are useless unless they are connected to and related to something relevant and useful.

Very true. However, many basics are overlooked or ever forbidden to be taught. I don't like it when a government forbids me to teach something.

I would suggest that CNHT with her "few" years of experience go into many classrooms where Project Learning and Education of the whole student is taking place and see for herself the deep learning that takes place.

I think I've had more than a 'few' years experience, thirty five to be exact. And the problem with project learning is, that it's wide but NOT deep...

THANK YOU JMSEEEL for one, putting yourself out there and opening yourself up to those who are ignorant and two, for being brave enough and caring enough about education to take on this huge endeavor.

There you go again with insults in response to my genuine concern.

Don't worry about those who will attack you because they lack the understanding of what you're trying to do, you can tell who they are when they attack one thing, then you answer with something they can't respond to , then go onto to something else.  I will support you in any way that I can.

I am offering my knowledge..you did not like it...you are the one who attacked me, saying that I was uable to implement it or that I was ignorant.
I was merely pointing out the track record of this bit of 'fad' learning. I am not saying it's not worth doing at all, but it's been shown to be supplemental at best.
If you are truly concerned about what happens in the classroom, try it yourself first or at least read up on what the experiences of others have been.

Until you have done 35 years as I have, I think you have a lot of catching up to do. I saw every kind of system come and go...and that one was not the most successful partly because it is impractical to manage in large classrooms.

PS - NHTA does this stand for NH Teacher's Association? If so then no wonder.

[Tom Sawyer]

Heck Jane,
You came onto a thread that someone posted saying they wanted to start a private school... I say I'm glad this person wants to offer an alternative to government schools.

You're manner is abrasive and polarizing...

[CNHT]

Heck Jane,
You came onto a thread that someone posted saying they wanted to start a private school... I say I'm glad this person wants to offer an alternative to government schools.

You're manner is abrasive and polarizing...

I am just comparing the program they suggest with the ones in the public schools that I did not think worked that well. Why repeat the same mistakes as the public schools, was my question? Hardly abrasive or polarizing. I wanted to know how they would be different since this is exactly what is being done in the public schools.
And you KNOW those are not very libertarian.

Some of you don't like to hear ideas that are different than yours...when they are merely being offered to get you to THINK.

PS - And calling someone a 'nationalist' because they believe in the right of a country to maintain its sovereignty (as if that were a bad thing) ISN'T polarizing? You can't take it but you can sure dish it out...

[CNHT]

Here is an example of the writing of a COLLEGE student that was brought up under 'project learning' in the Monadnock area:

--start--
You all know ,if you want done rite than do it your self.So i went to
to hockey rink and got some of the snow from the ice shavinvings witch
is baically snow and took some home and made my own snow park.ahh ,the
perks of living next a idustrial park,Witch is where i got the
obsticale,(dad yeas i had permission to take them.The coolest part is
when can somwe how gfet some more snow ,the recorder wants to do a
story on  how i too matters into my own hands,and the y said it will
be a front page pic,so mom plaes e help me get some more snow.
Well you all be wel and pray fopr snow
                    from atom the guy who stop at nothing to
snowboard!!!\
  PEACE
--end--

[Rosie the Riveter]

One students writing does not prove or disprove the effectiveness of an education method.

[error]

One students writing does not prove or disprove the effectiveness of an education method.

Of course not.

But it's representative -- very representative -- of what's coming out of public schools these days. This is NOT an isolated case.