FTL's "cat out of the bag"

[Lloyd Danforth]

As we have covered in the past, there has been intollerence on both sides.

#1101  or 1116. something like that.  I emailed Jason just before the vote to make sure i was going to get a package.  He assured me I was and gave a membership number 11 something.  I didn't know there were numbers. With the 1000 that dropped out post vote and the couple thousand joined since 1100 something should be the new 500

[Caleb]

+1 for KB.  I don't know where they got this "within the political system" crap.

Um, from the FSP website, top center of the home page, where it sat for years......     Since I already had this exact same conversation with Lloyd on the O-List several months ago, I'll just copy my response to him on 7/24/2006 here:

Lloyd,

Apologies for not providing a reference earlier.  This website: http://www.archive.org/index.php shows what websites looked like in the past.  If you type our URL in where it says Wayback Machine, you'll be presented with numerous hyperlinked dates.  Clicking on the dates shows what our website looked like at various points in the past.  I clicked on the topmost date in each of three years, 2003, 2004 and 2005, all of which show our former mission statement.

I really didn't think this was going to surprise anybody.  I don't understand why you think a fraud has been perpetrated.  If I recall correctly, the current version of the mission statement is what got some people all riled up last year, feeling that too much time was spent on it, and triggering Pat K's Underground signature "I think the BUS needs a snowplow" (I was not involved in either the crafting, or the debates of the crafting)....

--Sandy

Alright.  This is all before my time.  At any rate, I don't see what a previous statement of intent has to do with current obligations.  I signed on after all the "much ado about nothing."   And I tend to think that all the debate is meaningless anyway, because "political activity" is sort of all in the eye of the beholder.  In many people's opinions, Russell is highly politically involved because of his commentary on political issues in the political arena.  From the viewpoint of himself (and others) he's not politically involved at all. 

If we can't all agree that advocating war is advocating violence (and thus out of bounds per the FSP prohibition against advocating violence), then how on earth can we hold some people to a particular definition of a statement that isn't even included in the statement of intent anymore?

[Pat K]

Well I will feel left out if I don't comment.
I was more amused than riled up about the
Great mission statement rewrite.
Heck if you still have the 2005
Porc Fest book, you can see I praised the Glory
of Mission statement.

I just could not believe that this was what folks thought
was causing a recruiting lag.

But now I think I was wrong as alot of folks
seem to want to Analise it still.

I think both sides politico and non should agree
that their not going to agree alot of the time.

Work together when they can and avoid bad mouthing each other.
I plan as I always have to support both.

The snow plow should still be ready for quick attachment though.

[error]

I just want to throw in here that I've known about the FSP for years. But I never decided to actually sign the SOI and move until the SoI was changed.

I've also said repeatedly that those who are working within the system, and those working outside the system, need to work together and learn from each other. I'm happy to see that, for the most part, they are and they do.

[FTL_Ian]

I have heard from another person who listens more regularly that Ian and Mark also dispense advice on how to register to vote in NH without actually living here, which is yet another form of fraud and directly in conflict with the FSP's longtime mission.

You should avoid heresay.  FYI, I attack Mark when he mentions that sort of thing.

As for what FSP leaders think of this, most of the Board disagrees with me on this issue and does not have a problem with continuing to sponsor FTL.

Sensible of the board.

[FTL_Ian]

I believe you are sincere in your concerns about the FSP. Same with Jean.  I think it is clear from the most recent O list posts from Amanda and Lynn that they are concerned about their resumes.
Lloyd

I can only imagine the handwringing of FTL's detractors over this...   

[Russell Kanning]

alright ..... mark and Ian are "ruining it for the rest of us" at much higher levels than me.

[FTL_Ian]

alright ..... mark and Ian are "ruining it for the rest of us" at much higher levels than me.

[d_goddard]

alright ..... mark and Ian are "ruining it for the rest of us" at much higher levels than me.

... and the bits that Mark and Ian aren't ruining, are being ruined by Russ and the other "Keene anarchists!"
You've spoiled it for everyone   

[John]

That's it!  I'm going back to that old shitty state.

If we can't all agree on everything, I'm out of here.

If it looks bad on my resume, I'll explain that I'm just a "people person" and can't stand being around folks who argue all the time.

I really don't care about Freedom, Liberty & Justice.  I just though we could all get along.

[Pat K]

That's it!  I'm going back to that old shitty state.

If we can't all agree on everything, I'm out of here.

If it looks bad on my resume, I'll explain that I'm just a "people person" and can't stand being around folks who argue all the time.

I really don't care about Freedom, Liberty & Justice.  I just though we could all get along.

Oh jeez there goes John, talking about Freedom, Liberty & Justice. don't he know there are arguments to win, points to be scored and people put in there place.Man what kind of libertarian are you?

[Russell Kanning]

... and the bits that Mark and Ian aren't ruining, are being ruined by Russ and the other "Keene anarchists!"

how many Keene anarchists does it take to complete a revolution?

[eques]

... and the bits that Mark and Ian aren't ruining, are being ruined by Russ and the other "Keene anarchists!"

how many Keene anarchists does it take to complete a revolution?

All of them?   

[money dollars]

alright ..... mark and Ian are "ruining it for the rest of us" at much higher levels than me.

... and the bits that Mark and Ian aren't ruining, are being ruined by Russ and the other "Keene anarchists!"
You've spoiled it for everyone   

They can only ruin things I didn't ruin first. 

[Dreepa]

alright ..... mark and Ian are "ruining it for the rest of us" at much higher levels than me.

... and the bits that Mark and Ian aren't ruining, are being ruined by Russ and the other "Keene anarchists!"
You've spoiled it for everyone   

They can only ruin things I didn't ruin first. 

What have you ruined MD?