Buying lower-cost Liberty Dollars without becoming an "Associate"

[error]

This is functionally worth about 60 cents, but I'm giving it to you as $20.

[penguins4me]

Great example, error! :D I, too, prefer actual silver pieces (as opposed to such things as LD deposit certificates, etc.), but the issue is "whom do you trust?" By using paper dollars/FRNs, as error so eloquently stated, you're trusting that a piece of paper which supposedly cost sixty cents to produce will be honored at the face value of twenty dollars... which I suppose it is, but what I consider "twenty dollars" is not actually what "twenty dollars" is, due to constant inflation, as that "twenty dollars" is worth less and less as time goes on.

Whoa, I have to say there were too many penguins in this thread for me to pay attention to the topic!

Sorry - I needed a new nondescript nickname and my muse seemed to have taken a no-notice leave of absence... :P

[YixilTesiphon]

Oh, I understand the logic behind using them. I don't understand how you convince people who've never heard of them to take them.

[error]

Oh, I understand the logic behind using them. I don't understand how you convince people who've never heard of them to take them.

You get actual silver into people's hands first. Once they're comfortable with it (and perhaps have more of it than they think they know what to do with) then people might be more accepting of warehouse receipts.

[KBCraig]

This is functionally worth about 60 cents, but I'm giving it to you as $20.

It might be intrinsically worth about $0.60, but functionally it's worth $20. That is, it's worth "$20" as the rest of the world understands it: twenty U.S. dollars in FRNs.

Give that bill to the pizza guy, and he can deposit in his bank, or trade it for $20 worth of gasoline, or groceries, or movie tickets, or marijuana, or whatever.

But give him a Liberty Dollar marked "$20", and he can't deposit in his bank. His being able to trade it for gasoline, groceries, etc., depends on convincing the recipient that the shiny silver piece is worth "$20" as he's accustomed to understanding it. And when he finds out that the intrinsic silver value --"intrinsic value" being a big selling point for the LD-- is less than $15, he's probably going to be pissed off.

I have no problem trading silver pieces, whether LDs, junk silver, NW Mint rounds, or any other pieces of silver, based on their silver value. But stamping "$20" on one, when a short time ago the same piece was stamped "$10", serves, at the very least, to accommodate fraud, if not outright encourage it.

An ounce of silver is an ounce of silver, and said ounce isn't automatically worth "$x" as most people understand it.

Kevin

[penguins4me]

I'm sure KBCraig is already aware of the reasoning behind stamping a face value on a silver piece: convenience. The value of silver pieces in USDs fluctuates wildly, and if the face value of the piece is less than the inherant value, then people will hoard the pieces instead of spending them. Again, case in point: pre-1965 US coins are 90% silver, and are worth *much* more than their face value - they are never used at face value except due to accidents or ignorance.

Someone with an LD is trusting NORFED/whomever for ~$5 over the inherant value of the $20 silver piece they hold. Compare that to trusting the US gov't for $19.40 over the inherant value of the paper piece supposedly costing sixty cents to make.

Also worthy of note: the worth of a LD is "going up" over time, as noted by the changing face values. The worth of a USD is going down over time, as noted by the need for more USDs to buy the same item at a later time.

The only thing I can see going for the USD at present is massive inertia. Oh, yes, and the ease of exchange. In amounts smaller than $10,000, $3,000, or whatever amounts the terr'ists are favoring today.

[Russell Kanning]

Not to nag, BUT, don't call the Liberty a coin. Big brother owns the word and gets a little grumpy when you call something with real value a coin. Call it a Liberty, a silver, a silver round, or a medallion.

Please do not nag. We can get that anyplace.

It might be useful info that the evil government punishes those that use the work "coin", but why not let each of us decide how to deal with them.

[Lloyd Danforth]

A coin is anything made by the manufacturing process known as coining.

[Dreepa]

A coin is anything made by the manufacturing process known as coining.

Article I
Section 8
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

[Raineyrocks]

Whoa, I have to say there were too many penguins in this thread for me to pay attention to the topic!

Sorry - I needed a new nondescript nickname and my muse seemed to have taken a no-notice leave of absence...

I was just joking, it's fine! 

[error]

A coin is anything made by the manufacturing process known as coining.

Article I
Section 8
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face. It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

[Lloyd Danforth]

A coin is anything made by the manufacturing process known as coining.

Article I
Section 8
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

I said 'coin'.  Nothing about money.

[PowerPenguin]

Originally, it was the same thing. There were no 'bills of credit' ;0

[MaineShark]

Also worthy of note: the worth of a LD is "going up" over time, as noted by the changing face values. The worth of a USD is going down over time, as noted by the need for more USDs to buy the same item at a later time.

The LD's are not changing in value.  An ounce of silver will buy, today, approximately what an ounce of silver bought a hundred years ago.  Similar, to use an example, an ounce of gold would buy a pretty decent men's suit a hundred years ago; oddly enough, an ounce of gold will do the same thing, today.

The only thing changing in value in that equation are the FRN's, and that's what the changing face value on the LD's represents.

However, as several people have posted, accepting silver at significantly above face value is still silly.  Not that I might not pay for the convenience of using LD's, since they are a widely-recognized (at least, as widely as such things are) form of alternative currency.  But I would only use them for small transactions.  At any larger transaction, the added cost of the LD versus the spot price of silver gets too high.

Joe

[Pat McCotter]

Whoa, I have to say there were too many penguins in this thread for me to pay attention to the topic!

Well, I guess its good that penguinsscareme didn't join in, then!


He's your "Buddy with a Truck!"