I hope this is the right topic for this part of the forum so here goes.......

[Raineyrocks]

Keep in mind, also, that when the economy does collapse, the relative value of things is going to change dramatically, as people focus more on the essentials of life.

Thats true, it actually goes back to the food supply thread too, thanks!

[Raineyrocks]

In times of inflation, just buying things you will need over the next few years anyway, like food, paper goods and fuel, , ahead of time, can represent a good return on your money.  Getting used to using storable things like beans and rice is a good idea.
So.....you tie up some of your extra money in as much future food and other consumables as you can afford, perhaps all at once or a little extra each shopping day.  Once you have acquired it you use it, turning it over, and replace it as you shop.
If inflation raises the price of these things, you win!  If the shit hits the fan and the availability of food is limited , you win.  We always hear that there is a three day supply of food at our supermarkets before they need to get deliveries.  If the Teamsters Union wanted to, they could cripple the entire country by blocking highway entrances and exits with their trucks and shooting the tires out.
If nothing goes wrong you still have the food and stuff to use and while it might not rise in cost as much as Silver might rise in value, it is easier to use and tastes better.

I started buying some extra stuff at the store and went through the pantry and rotated everything so that's good.  I found these soups that come in a container, 6 for $1.50 I think.  Thanks!

[Raineyrocks]

Ammunition is a valuable commodity, even if you don't own a gun in that caliber. It's also a decent investment, although new buyers have definitely missed the bargain period. It keeps going up, though, and should be expected to continue to climb. After a SHTF situation, it's going to be remarkably more valuable, and there's no assurance of new supplies coming on the market.

I'd suggest a case of .22LR, plus as much of the following as you're comfortable buying at one time: 12 gauge (in hunting/defense loads), .223/5.56, .308/7.62, .30-06, 9mm, and .38 Special.

Guns and ammunition don't have to be for violent overthrow of the power structure. In an economic meltdown, they'll be important for two simultaneous reasons: self defense, and harvesting game. And ammo in common calibers will always be a valuable trading commodity.

Of course, you'll also want to make sure you're well stocked in your own calibers, and reloading supplies are something to consider.

Kevin

Thanks, I'm going to print this for my husband so he can get some of the ammo you suggested.  We need more too and should probably stop using it for target practice at this point and save it.

[LiveFree]

Practice is a good thing.  Don't just not practice.  A rifle is no good if you can't hit anything with it.  A pistol for defense is no good if you can't hit what you want to hit.

KBCraig never mentioned the wonderful little .22 long rifle in his post, so I'll go into it here.  .22 is great because it's cheap, like, $10 for 500 rounds cheap.  In time of need, you can feed yourself for cents a day by picking off small critters like squirrels and birds, some people even take deer with the little .22.  It's easy to stockpile due to its compact size, and my bet is that the little .22 will get a nice return should any situations arise.  Everyone needs to eat, and lots of people aren't going to have the resources to go buy something suitable for defense should the time come, and might be more willing to part with some stuff for a .22 rifle or pistol and some ammo.  It beats the hell out of a sharp stick.  Plus, .22 is definitely my favorite round to shoot, because it's so cheap, so it's not like I wouldn't use it anyways somewhere down the line.

I see people selling nice little .22's on the cheap all the time.  A buddy of mine over the weekend was offering to sell his excellent condition Ruger 10/22 with a decent scope and a few hi-cap mags for $100.  I think he said he paid around $50 for the scope, around $120 for the rifle, and about $20 a piece for the 2 hi-cap mags.  I'd buy it, but I'm short on cash myself.  I see .22 revolvers and pistols selling on the cheap all the time as well.


Also, do you garden?  Think about taking it up as a hobby.  You could save money on food, relax while doing it, and it'd be one less thing to worry about in time of crisis, from a zombie attack right down to "Uh oh, lost my job, time to start looking for work, but my oh my, how am I going to eat and pay the bills" etc.

[Raineyrocks]

Hi LiveFree,

A .22 is great, got that one covered already too!   I'll see if  I can find cheaper ammo for my .38 to practice with then, thanks again!

Yes, I love having a garden and am definitely going to be doing that.  So do you agree with my husband that mortgages are going to be the least of the problems if/when the shit hits the fan?  What I worry about is if we're going to end up homeless what's the point of storing food and other things when we'll have no where to keep them.

[KBCraig]

KBCraig never mentioned the wonderful little .22 long rifle in his post, so I'll go into it here.

???

I'd suggest a case of .22LR, plus as much of the following as you're comfortable buying ...

[error]

I think by "mention" you mean "expound at length on the virtues of".

[cathleeninnh]

Rainey,

Whether to be worried about not paying your mortgage or not depends on what you think is going to happen. In the worst of possibilities, no I don't think your home would be a concern because you are dead. Move on down the scale and there are more and more possibilities that make losing your home a real possibility. So you have to decide what you are preparing for. It isn't wise to ignore the likelihood of a "serious downturn" in the economy that might leave you hurting, unemployed, and possibly homeless. Will the financial world totally collapse, leaving no mortgage company to come after you?

I had a great great uncle who got richer during the depression because he "helped" those in dire straights with loans. Many couldn't keep up payments and he foreclosed on them. Took awhile for the acquired properties to appreciate, but they did.

If you are going to get panicky, put your first efforts into securing today, tomorrow and the most likely futures.

Cathleen

[Lloyd Danforth]

That would stop after the first bulldozer operator was killed.  There are 1.5 million members.  If they wanted to cripple the country, they could.

There are a lot more gun owners than that.  And people who know how to make Molotav cocktails.

People who are threatened with starvation don't have much to lose.  Are Teamsters (even any large fraction of that 1.5 million) willing to face down mobs of angry people who want to tear them limb-from-limb, just to make a few dollars?  I don't think even one in a thousand would be that crazy.

If they wanted to refuse to work, that's one thing.  Blocking the roadways is another.  If their roadblocks are effective, where are all the people trying to escape the cities going to end up?  Right at the roadblock.  Wouldn't take long before the majority of those manning the roadblocks bolted, and the few that remained would be killed pretty quickly.  Then people would come in with dozers.

Someone tries to starve my family, I'm sure as hell going hunting.  And I'm going to go for gut-shots, if I can.  People like that deserve a slow death.

Joe

You can bet the citizenry  will be close to starvation before they react.  Much of the food supply is 1000 or more miles away from New England.  The production and delivery system is delicate and will have a hard time recovering from the delay, much less able to keep the highways clear.

[SAK]

For investing in precious metals, I would go here for info: http://www.the-moneychanger.com/commandments.phtml

For silver, definitely go with junk silver (90% silver US coins).  You can buy this stuff for pennies on the ounce above the spot (market trading price) of silver.  AFTER you get your silver, then worry about getting a little gold.  The smaller the coins, the more they may come in handy (1/10th ounce gold coins may be valuable).  If the SHTF, then it may be unlikely you'll want to throw ounce pieces around too much.

Stick with what that page says, shop around, and find the best price.  Maybe see if Franklin Sanders (that's his website and he was in Freedom to Fascism) will match prices elsewhere.  Go with recognizable coins like the ones listed there, and go for as cheap as you can get.  Gold is gold, silver is silver.  Calculate it out per ounce and see what you're paying.

This is a really good way to keep money, as long as you can keep it secure.  Why?  Because deflation is ALWAYS happening, and a collapse MAY happen anytime.  If I had money in the market right now, I would take 90% of it out.  Also, look at it this way.  Bank holidays have happened before -- never know when it could happen again.  Say you have most of your money in accounts -- it's going to be absolutely worthless if things go real sour.  Got 20k in a CD somewhere?  You'd be lucky to get 8% interest on it.  The inflation alone each year is estimated at 10-12% (they report it much lower than it really is).  You're not gaining any money there   I really think the dollar is in for some serious trouble.

Money is secondary though.  Food and water are most important.  Next is guns and ammo and marksmanship (not to mention courage).  No doubt it's a good idea to stockpile as much of all the major popular calibers as possible.  Cartridges will be the currency of tomorrow

It all sounds doomy and gloomy, but let's face it.  I personally think the powers that be have done most of what they wanted to with the US already.  It's not a matter of IF the SHTF but when.  We'll need a serious miracle on our side to stop things.  It's better to prepare for the worst.  So what if in 10 years you have food, water, ammo, gold and silver lying around and nothing's happened?  Eat, drink, and go shooting

[powerchuter]

That would stop after the first bulldozer operator was killed.  There are 1.5 million members.  If they wanted to cripple the country, they could.

There are a lot more gun owners than that.  And people who know how to make Molotav cocktails.

People who are threatened with starvation don't have much to lose.  Are Teamsters (even any large fraction of that 1.5 million) willing to face down mobs of angry people who want to tear them limb-from-limb, just to make a few dollars?  I don't think even one in a thousand would be that crazy.

If they wanted to refuse to work, that's one thing.  Blocking the roadways is another.  If their roadblocks are effective, where are all the people trying to escape the cities going to end up?  Right at the roadblock.  Wouldn't take long before the majority of those manning the roadblocks bolted, and the few that remained would be killed pretty quickly.  Then people would come in with dozers.

Someone tries to starve my family, I'm sure as hell going hunting.  And I'm going to go for gut-shots, if I can.  People like that deserve a slow death.

Joe

I'm with Joe on this one, all the way!  Joe and I will be guarding the people putting fresh tires on that truck so we can ride shotgun on the convoy to get food and bring it back...  And I'm sure we'll have plenty of company!  Great minds think alike!  One way or another we'll take care of business, it's the American way...lol.

[Raineyrocks]

Rainey,

Whether to be worried about not paying your mortgage or not depends on what you think is going to happen. In the worst of possibilities, no I don't think your home would be a concern because you are dead. Move on down the scale and there are more and more possibilities that make losing your home a real possibility. So you have to decide what you are preparing for. It isn't wise to ignore the likelihood of a "serious downturn" in the economy that might leave you hurting, unemployed, and possibly homeless. Will the financial world totally collapse, leaving no mortgage company to come after you?

I had a great great uncle who got richer during the depression because he "helped" those in dire straights with loans. Many couldn't keep up payments and he foreclosed on them. Took awhile for the acquired properties to appreciate, but they did.

If you are going to get panicky, put your first efforts into securing today, tomorrow and the most likely futures.



Cathleen

Thanks again Cathleen!   I wish we would have bought a cheaper house.   I bet even if we put it up for sale now it wouldn't sell with the housing market right now. Even if someone did buy it I've looked at the prices of other houses and their much higher for less house and land.  In Maryland we only owed $57.000 for our mortgage , up here we owe $184,000.

[Raineyrocks]

For investing in precious metals, I would go here for info: http://www.the-moneychanger.com/commandments.phtml

For silver, definitely go with junk silver (90% silver US coins).  You can buy this stuff for pennies on the ounce above the spot (market trading price) of silver.  AFTER you get your silver, then worry about getting a little gold.  The smaller the coins, the more they may come in handy (1/10th ounce gold coins may be valuable).  If the SHTF, then it may be unlikely you'll want to throw ounce pieces around too much.

Stick with what that page says, shop around, and find the best price.  Maybe see if Franklin Sanders (that's his website and he was in Freedom to Fascism) will match prices elsewhere.  Go with recognizable coins like the ones listed there, and go for as cheap as you can get.  Gold is gold, silver is silver.  Calculate it out per ounce and see what you're paying.

This is a really good way to keep money, as long as you can keep it secure.  Why?  Because deflation is ALWAYS happening, and a collapse MAY happen anytime.  If I had money in the market right now, I would take 90% of it out.  Also, look at it this way.  Bank holidays have happened before -- never know when it could happen again.  Say you have most of your money in accounts -- it's going to be absolutely worthless if things go real sour.  Got 20k in a CD somewhere?  You'd be lucky to get 8% interest on it.  The inflation alone each year is estimated at 10-12% (they report it much lower than it really is).  You're not gaining any money there   I really think the dollar is in for some serious trouble.

Money is secondary though.  Food and water are most important.  Next is guns and ammo and marksmanship (not to mention courage).  No doubt it's a good idea to stockpile as much of all the major popular calibers as possible.  Cartridges will be the currency of tomorrow

It all sounds doomy and gloomy, but let's face it.  I personally think the powers that be have done most of what they wanted to with the US already.  It's not a matter of IF the SHTF but when.  We'll need a serious miracle on our side to stop things.  It's better to prepare for the worst.  So what if in 10 years you have food, water, ammo, gold and silver lying around and nothing's happened?  Eat, drink, and go shooting

Thanks, great advice and I will check out that link!   Do you think it's safe to get junk silver from Ebay?  I hear you about a miracle, as much concern as  I have for my family I feel even more for all of the people that are going to be in the direct line of fire after these assholes go on their bloody mission.      Hey if a miracle does happen we can all get together and have one hell of a party!

[Russell Kanning]

 25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?

28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

[penguins4me]

Lots of good advice has already been given, but there may be one thing worth explicitly stating, based on that sample ebay listing: buying precious metals/coins as insurance against economical collapse shouldn't be done with anything other than coins valued solely on their inherant value... which essentually means "the metal's spot price", plus a small ($0.50-$1.00, depending) fee. Avoid any "collector's" item, and just stick with pure/mostly pure coins. Some notable exceptions are US Eagle coins - they command a higher fee per coin, but supposedly are more well-known (same goes for other govt's official minted valuble coinage).

If gold is out of reach (and just how often do you spend ~$660-ish at one go, anyway?), "junk" silver coins are supposed to be good trade fodder, and so are "silver rounds", generic coins made of out pure (.999-ish) silver, which can be had for just a smidge above spot, usually.

As many folks have already mentioned, precious metals should be procured after water, food, protection, and shelter have been secured. ;)