I hope this is the right topic for this part of the forum so here goes.......

[Raineyrocks]

Lots of good advice has already been given, but there may be one thing worth explicitly stating, based on that sample ebay listing: buying precious metals/coins as insurance against economical collapse shouldn't be done with anything other than coins valued solely on their inherant value... which essentually means "the metal's spot price", plus a small ($0.50-$1.00, depending) fee. Avoid any "collector's" item, and just stick with pure/mostly pure coins. Some notable exceptions are US Eagle coins - they command a higher fee per coin, but supposedly are more well-known (same goes for other govt's official minted valuble coinage).

If gold is out of reach (and just how often do you spend ~$660-ish at one go, anyway?), "junk" silver coins are supposed to be good trade fodder, and so are "silver rounds", generic coins made of out pure (.999-ish) silver, which can be had for just a smidge above spot, usually.

As many folks have already mentioned, precious metals should be procured after water, food, protection, and shelter have been secured.

Thanks!  I was talking to a brokerage guy yesterday and he said not to buy "junk" silver to go with numismatic coins because the government can't confiscate them.  He talked to me for about an hour and seemed very knowledgable but every survival book I have says go with the junk silver.     Here's more of what he said, he goes by what the "big wigs" in the country are doing and keeps a close eye on that, he has no doubt the current fiat system is going to collapse and within a few months the tyrannical government will be calling in evreyone's bullion.  He told me the entire history of the monetary system, he said the currency almost collapsed in August but people weren't made aware of it as we are taught to just go by the Dow Jones Index.  He said the best thing that could happen is the banks fail first before the government calls in bullion and we take back our country and set up our own backed currency system.  He said dimes are a smart way to go if your looking to purchase survival items such as bread, (who wants to give up an ounce of silver or gold), for a loaf of bread, also with quarters you may not get change back.  So now I'm really confused, what do you think? ???

[Raineyrocks]

Oh yeah, he also said not to worry about losing your house as there will be no banks to take them back, but my question is if that's true why isn't everyone buying real estate knowing they can keep it without paying when the currency fails?  I didn't ask him that, I thought of it after.  Anyways I didn't buy anything because I am confused but I did get some vegetable seeds, (heirloom), from Ebay for about .99cents per 250-600 seeds.  I figure it will be a good idea to have some dirt and containers even if I have to grow them in the house. 
He did stress the importance of community when the chaos occurs and looking out for each other's backs. I already knew that anyway. I'm pretty sure if we all stick together and help each other it'll be alot better.  

[MaineShark]

I was talking to a brokerage guy yesterday and he said not to buy "junk" silver to go with numismatic coins because the government can't confiscate them.  He talked to me for about an hour and seemed very knowledgable but every survival book I have says go with the junk silver.

As long as it is recognizably a coin, you can claim it is part of a coin collection, not a "secret stash of bullion."  If you buy junk silver (eg, silverware, etc.), just claim that it is a family heirloom.

Here's more of what he said, he goes by what the "big wigs" in the country are doing and keeps a close eye on that, he has no doubt the current fiat system is going to collapse and within a few months the tyrannical government will be calling in evreyone's bullion.  He told me the entire history of the monetary system, he said the currency almost collapsed in August but people weren't made aware of it as we are taught to just go by the Dow Jones Index.  He said the best thing that could happen is the banks fail first before the government calls in bullion and we take back our country and set up our own backed currency system.  He said dimes are a smart way to go if your looking to purchase survival items such as bread, (who wants to give up an ounce of silver or gold), for a loaf of bread, also with quarters you may not get change back.  So now I'm really confused, what do you think? ???

While precious metals are useful, you can't eat them, you can't keep warm with them, and you can't hunt with them (except werewolves ) so keep a balanced portfolio.  The only things really special about precious metals is their easy portability, generally-agreed value, and lack of shelf life.  Anything of value is "currency."  In a true free market, I could go to Jim's Bank and Lumber, and trade for certificates denominated in cords of wood, which you could redeem if I paid you with them.  Of course, if you were only interested in eggs, not cordwood, you might not want to accept cordwood certificates as payment.  That's where gold and silver are useful: if you accept silver in payment, you can likely find someone who will accept the silver for eggs, because that person does need cordwood, and can then buy it from Jim.

But a diversified, backed currency is certainly a possibility.  Imagine a currency that might be denominated in gold and/or silver, but can be exchanged at participating merchants for any of a variety of products, based on their value relative to gold and/or silver.  So, say you have a "one ounce" gold certificate, and cordwood is going for roughly three cords per ounce.  If you needed cordwood, you could trade that certificate in at Jim's Bank and Lumber and get three cords of wood.  Or one cord of wood and a half-ounce gold certificate and some change in silver certificates.

If we all stick together, don't expect a return to the status quo, or even status quo ante.  We'll be building something new and better.

Joe

[Raineyrocks]

While precious metals are useful, you can't eat them, you can't keep warm with them, and you can't hunt with them (except werewolves Shocked) so keep a balanced portfolio.

  Damn werewolves!

So, say you have a "one ounce" gold certificate, and cordwood is going for roughly three cords per ounce.

What is a gold certificate?  I guess what I mean is would it be as good as having a gold coin?  So do you think this brokerage guys advice is lame?  Sorry for so many questions it's just so confusing.

We'll be building something new and better.

[Dreepa]

So, say you have a "one ounce" gold certificate, and cordwood is going for roughly three cords per ounce.

What is a gold certificate?  I guess what I mean is would it be as good as having a gold coin?  So do you think this brokerage guys advice is lame?  Sorry for so many questions it's just so confusing.

Back in the day... you would have an ounce of gold in the bank and they would give you a piece of paper that said good for one ounce of gold.  That was how paper money had 'backing'.... notice his other example was 'cords of wood' backing.. anything of value can back paper money. 

[Raineyrocks]

So, say you have a "one ounce" gold certificate, and cordwood is going for roughly three cords per ounce.

What is a gold certificate?  I guess what I mean is would it be as good as having a gold coin?  So do you think this brokerage guys advice is lame?  Sorry for so many questions it's just so confusing.

Back in the day... you would have an ounce of gold in the bank and they would give you a piece of paper that said good for one ounce of gold.  That was how paper money had 'backing'.... notice his other example was 'cords of wood' backing.. anything of value can back paper money. 

Oh, okay!  Thanks Dreepa!   What do you think about the advice the brokerage guy gave me about numismatic coins being a better choice than other coins?

[Russell Kanning]

He wants to make more money off of you.

[MaineShark]

So, say you have a "one ounce" gold certificate, and cordwood is going for roughly three cords per ounce.

What is a gold certificate?  I guess what I mean is would it be as good as having a gold coin?  So do you think this brokerage guys advice is lame?  Sorry for so many questions it's just so confusing.

As Dreepa said, it's basically a promise to hand you an ounce (or some other amount) of gold, if you ask for it.  It's what paper money used to be.  The dollar was valuable because you could go into a bank and request a dollar's worth of gold in exchange for your piece of paper.

That's a "fully backed" currency.  The Liberty Dollars are an example of that: every paper liberty dollar is a warehouse reciept for a given amount of silver (with the stipulation that you must have enough LD's to withdraw whole ounces, as they won't slice up coins to "make change").  It's a transferrable reciept (it doesn't have a particular person's name on it), so you can hand it to someone else in payment for some goods or services, and then he can go and exchange it.  Or he can pay someone else and then she can exchange it.  So, it has value, even if no one ever bothers to exchange it.

Of course, swinging back through time, some creative soul thought over the notion of fully-backed currencies, and figured out that it's unlikely that many people will demand exchange at any given time, so he really didn't need to have all the gold on-hand, all the time.  After all, what are the odds that more than a very small fraction of the note-holders will come in and ask to trade their notes for gold, ever, let alone all at once?  So the idea of an incrementally-backed currency was born.  Some will dismiss this out-of-hand, but it does bear consideration.  If you don't keep all your gold available, all the time, you can use some of it to invest, and earn a return (say, by buying real estate and collecting rent).  Now, you have more gold than when you started, but some of it is tied up in real estate.  The extra gold can be turned into more notes, or paid out as interest on savings accounts, etc.  Essentially, your bank has now increased the value of its currency, because it holds more gold.  But, again, some of that gold is tied up in real estate or other investments; it isn't liquid capital.  So, now your notes are only backed incrementally.  As long as only a small fraction of people show up at once, demanding their gold, you'll be fine.  You can always sell off some investments to get more gold, so you always keep some percentage of your gold available (say, 10% for an example).

Of course, if too many people show up all at once, you suddenly are running low on actual gold, so you try and talk people into holding onto at least some notes, but they note your reluctance and are getting mighty restless.  And they tell their friends, who panic, and come in and demand their notes be exchanged.  Pretty soon, no matter how hard you try to talk people out of withdrawing their gold from your bank, you're out of gold and the folks who are holding notes are getting quite upset.  You end up liquidating investments at fractions of what they are worth, just to try and get gold to calm the note-holders.  That's called a "run on the bank."

So, incremental backing can work, but it has to be done with care.  Your note-holders must be aware that there are time limits on exchanges (say, "you may, unless we allow otherwise, only withdraw ___ ounces per day"), even if you don't exercise those limits under normal conditions.  If they are aware, up-front, that those are the terms of your contract (say, print them on the face of the note), you haven't defrauded anyone.

And, again, gold is just an example, here.  The backing could be fuel oil, or corn, or granite blocks, or uranium, or valuable art, or absolutely anything else of value.

But, back onto the original topic, no your broker's advice isn't useless, but be aware that the banks you see every day don't hold bullion.  The bullion is stored in the Federal Reserve Banks (well, their warehouses) and in facilities like Fort Knox.  The Federal Reserve Notes are fiat money ("scrip").  Basically, fiat money is like Monopoly money: it has value under specific contexts, because everyone agrees that it does.  You can "buy" Park Place with Monopoly money because everyone playing the game with you agrees that those pieces of paper can be used as money.  Similarly, you can use FRN's to buy eggs at the store because the grocer agrees to take them (or, in actuality, is forced at gunpoint by the Feds to accept them, but you get my point).  The FRN's, like any fiat money, have little or no intrinsic value (just the value of the actual paper and ink and printing process).  And they only work so long as everyone takes them and agrees to forget that they are just paper.  As soon as things start falling apart, people start refusing to take them, because they don't know if the scrip they take in payment today is something they will be able to exchange for goods or services, tomorrow.

So, as before, just remember that value is what you want to look for.  Engine parts may be very valuable in the future, if they are hard to come buy.  Someone with a junkyard might be sitting on a veritable gold mine.  Alcohol will likely always be in demand, but it is also easy to make, so the value may not be high.  Look for things that aren't made around here, and can't readily be made around here, but which people would want/need in the future.

And have some gold and silver, as well.  They are easily-portable (if the guy with the junkyard needs to pick up and move because he just can't afford to truck food into his remote location, he's screwed), and have generally-recognized value, so you don't need to "sell" someone on the notion of accepting them (fine wines may be very good, but is some post-SHTF farmer likely to give you more eggs for them than for his neighbor's white lightning?).  It's good to diversify.

What do you think about the advice the brokerage guy gave me about numismatic coins being a better choice than other coins?

Numismatic coins are "part of your coin collection," if the government tries to confiscate bullion.  So, they are likely to remain unmolested.  However, they will lose value when things get tough, because no one will really care that there are few of that coin around.  And, in all likelyhood, anything causing them to go around trying to confiscate bullion is going to pretty well collapse the system.  Personally, I would just stick with coins that can be had at close to spot price.

Joe

[Raineyrocks]

He wants to make more money off of you.

???  Who does?  I haven't given anybody any money, heck I don't have that much anyway.  Oh wait,  , you mean the brokerage guy? 

[Raineyrocks]

Wow thanks for all of that info.  So I'm going to stay away from numismatics, thanks!

[Russell Kanning]

paper or paintings? .... depends on what you are looking for ... since you mentioned hard times .... why not paper?

[Raineyrocks]

paper or paintings? .... depends on what you are looking for ... since you mentioned hard times .... why not paper?

My brain is  not computing your info Russell, what are you talking about?

[Russell Kanning]

never mind

[Dan]

My SHTF plan has always been to keep my skills and body in shape and current enough to be USEFUL to OTHERS.  IE: Be first in line to take care of horses, cattle, gardens, and home defense for the nearest farmer, or group of farms.

And I'll have to be REALLY damned useful to justify feeding me! 

I think it wouldn't be too long for the porc-types in NH to migrate together and maybe start enjoying themselves  (shorty songs, little markets, maybe even a "court", plays, etc)

[Raineyrocks]

I think it wouldn't be too long for the porc-types in NH to migrate together and maybe start enjoying themselves  (shorty songs, little markets, maybe even a "court", plays, etc)

........pool hall, hair parlor, what's shorty songs?