Bar Shooting in Manchester

[powerchuter]

Before I wrote the check, I thought about the possibility that Ken Gage is not "hero worthy". But at that moment, he was a real hero, making the choice and taking the risk that was not required of him. He saved one or more lives. We have to applaud that.

Cathleen

Fortunately, most of us have matured sufficiently with respect to intelligence, reason, and philosophy that we understand our desire towards pre-conceived prejudicial stereotyping and have made the conscious decision to refrain from such premature accusations.

Ken is definitely a Hero!

[SpeedPhreak]

Playing devil's advocate.....have you considered that the patron's gun might have been taken because he had it illegally? He could be a convicted felon - could have shot someone himself in the past. This guy most definitely did the right thing in shooting the shooter, but we really don't know anything about him beyond that. After all, he was as the Uptown as well. : ) Just food for thought....

that doesn't (shouldn't) matter... if he was a felon he served his time or he wouldn't be out.  he would have served his time & should be reinstated to society w/out stipulations (I think the current system is very flawed - but i will save it for another thread).

even if he was a felon he still has a right to self defense.

[penguins4me]

[...] if we was a felon he served his time or he wouldn't be out.  he would have served his time & should be reinstated to society w/out stipulations (I think the current system is very flawed - but i will save it for another thread).

even if he was a felon he still has a right to self defense.

Right on. I only wish more people thought this way. I still fail to see where "they" get their authority to usurp "God-given, inherent" rights. :/ How much more blatant can one even get? The right to bear arms is explicitly listed in the Bill of Keep Your !@#$ Hands Off These Rights.

[lildog]

The right to bear arms is explicitly listed in the Bill of Keep Your !@#$ Hands Off These Rights.

Yes but the 14th amendment allows those rights to be taken away after due process.

[error]

And "due process" is whatever the government says it is.

[MaineShark]

The right to bear arms is explicitly listed in the Bill of Keep Your !@#$ Hands Off These Rights.

Yes but the 14th amendment allows those rights to be taken away after due process.

Rights can never be taken away.  That's what makes them rights.  Things that can be taken away are privledges, not rights.

Someone might forcibly prevent another from exercising his rights, but that isn't the same as taking them away.

Joe

[lildog]

The right to bear arms is explicitly listed in the Bill of Keep Your !@#$ Hands Off These Rights.

Yes but the 14th amendment allows those rights to be taken away after due process.

Rights can never be taken away.  That's what makes them rights.  Things that can be taken away are privledges, not rights.

Someone might forcibly prevent another from exercising his rights, but that isn't the same as taking them away.

Joe

Rights are only rights if they can be protected.

Look at some middle eastern countries or countries living under dictators where people have their tongues ripped out if they speak out against the government or where gun ownership is denied to everyone.  Those people have no rights because there is no ability or system in place to protect their rights.

[JonM]

Do you have a right to life?  Can that right be taken from you without your input?  A right can be supressed through violence, the thing is that it should not be.  We have a long way to go between the world of what is and the world of what should be.

[error]

We have a long way to go before even the people on this board will agree on what a right is.

[powerchuter]

The right to bear arms is explicitly listed in the Bill of Keep Your !@#$ Hands Off These Rights.

Yes but the 14th amendment allows those rights to be taken away after due process.

Rights can never be taken away.  That's what makes them rights.  Things that can be taken away are privledges, not rights.

Someone might forcibly prevent another from exercising his rights, but that isn't the same as taking them away.

Joe

RIGHT!

[powerchuter]

The right to bear arms is explicitly listed in the Bill of Keep Your !@#$ Hands Off These Rights.

Yes but the 14th amendment allows those rights to be taken away after due process.

Rights can never be taken away.  That's what makes them rights.  Things that can be taken away are privledges, not rights.

Someone might forcibly prevent another from exercising his rights, but that isn't the same as taking them away.

Joe

Rights are only rights if they can be protected.

Those people have no rights because there is no ability or system in place to protect their rights.

VERY, VERY WRONG!

[lildog]

A right can be supressed through violence, the thing is that it should not be.  We have a long way to go between the world of what is and the world of what should be.

That's just it, you can beat your chest all you want saying you have every right you can dream up but without some way of protecting that right from violence, it doesn't exist.  Might makes right.

[powerchuter]

A right can be supressed through violence, the thing is that it should not be.  We have a long way to go between the world of what is and the world of what should be.

That's just it, you can beat your chest all you want saying you have every right you can dream up but without some way of protecting that right from violence, it doesn't exist.  Might makes right.

You can't honestly believe that rights only "exist" through mob rule(more commonly called democracy)...

My right to life is inherent in my being...and no amount of mob rule or supposed authority or jurisdiction can take that away...

My right to defense is also inherent in my being...ditto above...

Might DOES NOT make RIGHT!

Might may give an individual or group "superior aggressive force" but that will never make it RIGHT!

Anyone who thinks "might makes right" needs a re-education on Pluto...

I wonder if body bags qualify as space suits?

[LiveFree]

You only have as many rights as you can defend, in realistic terms.  It's nice to THINK you have inherent rights, but without the means to back those rights with defensive force, you don't have the means to realistically exercise those rights.

Hence my unwavering support for the second amendment, and any other self defense right that may or may not have been enumerated in the US or NH Constitutions.

You have a RIGHT to your life, and to keep others from taking or infringing on it, but without the MEANS to protect your right...

That is why no DOCUMENT or GOVERNMENT can ever secure your rights.  They can claim to help, and realistically, sometimes they do help.  But the responsibility rests on your shoulders, and your shoulders alone, to secure your rights, regardless of if you can expect help from others or not.