Virginia Tech

[Lloyd Danforth]

There used to be a two week waiting period in CT for handgun,  although  after a check with local and state police came back clean the gun is given to the customer.  If you have a CC permit, you can generally take it when you buy it.

This student planned, or, at least became open to the idea more than two  weeks ago.

[Lloyd Danforth]

One thing that I hate is when this sort of event occurs and they interview the people who knew the (dead) killer. In their description he starts out as being a little quiet, and after they talk about it for a while the guy was apparently a raving lunatic who was just keeping the lid on.



"Well,  Lloyd seemed like a regular guy.................but, he didn't smile much.  Come to think of it, there was that time......"

[SpeedPhreak]

more back lash from this -

I didn't catch the whole story - but a student either from a local HS or college was heard commenting that he understood why he (the shooter) did it.

he was arrested (didn't hear for what) & has court sometime this week... another example of free speach being a thing of the past.

I will try to search for an article & post it later.

[cyberdoo78]

I got this in my email this morning and sent it off to my local school board and chief assministrator. I'd like to point out the training offered by Front Sight costs $1000-2000 per person for training and they are giving it away for free.

April 18, 2007


From Dr. Ignatius Piazza
Founder and Director
http://www.frontsight.com
1.800.987.7719

Please Forward to Your Local Newspapers, Radio
Stations, and Television News Stations

Subject:  Gun School For Teachers

Las Vegas, Nevada:  In the wake of the Virginia Tech 
shootings, Front Sight Firearms Training Institute, which
arguably is the world leader in providing intensified
courses in the defensive use of firearms for private
citizens, feels they have the answer to stopping further
attacks on school children.  Front Sight is offering free
firearms training to any school administrator, teacher, or
full time staff member designated as  school Safety
Monitors.  Front Sight will accept for training up to three
staff members from each school, college or university. 
Applicants must submit a letter requesting training on
school letterhead signed by the top school district
official and designating the applicant as the school's
Safety Monitor. 

Guns and Teachers

Front Sight's Founder and Director, Dr. Ignatius Piazza
understands that his offer may offend some school
administrators and parents who do not see arming and
training selected school staff members as a positive
solution to violent attacks.  However, he is quick to point
out that historically, his approach has worked while gun
control has actually increased violent crime by shifting
the balance of power to favor the criminals and lunatics. 

"My offer is not a new idea," says Piazza.  "In the early
70's, Israel was faced with much greater problems of armed
terrorist attacks on schools.  The cry for more gun control
was heard then too, but Israel very carefully analyzed all
possible options before adopting the proactive position of
arming and training their teachers.  School shootings
stopped and terrorists looked for easier targets."  He
maintains that gun control never has and never will stop
criminals and madmen from carrying out acts of gun
violence.

"In our country, every time a misguided individual on
psychiatric drugs goes on a killing spree, anti-self
defense legislators, watch the polls and exploit the
dead victims in order to fool the public into accepting
more gun control.  It is time our country finds some
resolve and the will to tackle the real problem- which is
rooting out the actual influences in the lives of our youth
that predispose them to commit atrocities such as those we
saw at Virginia Tech.  The problem is not guns.  Guns don't
cause these incidents to occur anymore than cameras cause
child pornography or automobiles cause traffic fatalities.
Israel had the right answer. Society is safer when we train
and arm our law abiding citizens. As the defensive training
leader in the USA, Front Sight is willing and able to set
the example for the rest of the country to follow."

Armed Teachers
   
Dave Clark, who recently retired after teaching for the
last 25 years at Junction Junior High School in Livermore,
California agrees with Front Sight's philosophy. In fact,
Mr. Clark has previously attended a Four Day Defensive
Handgun course at Front Sight at his own expense and found
the course to be exactly what is needed to train fellow
teachers to stop an attack similar to Columbine school and
Virginia Tech.  "Front Sight provides safe and responsible
training to a level that exceeds law enforcement
standards." Says Mr. Clark.  "Among the many lessons
taught, I learned universally accepted rules in justifiable
use of deadly force.  More importantly, I learned when not
to shoot and how to be more mentally prepared to see a
lethal confrontation coming before it happens in order to
avoid it.  The firearms training is second to none and
clearly gives the graduates the skill needed to save the
lives of those in their charge if ever attacked. If my
school district chose to adopt a policy of sending selected
teachers to Front Sight for concealed handgun training, I
would wholeheartedly support it and volunteer as a Safety
Monitor. There is no reason for our children to continue to
be victimized when free, professional training is available
to stop school attacks."

Guns in Schools

There is evidence that a gun in the hand of a teacher will
stop an armed attacker. The vice-principal of a school in
Pearl, Mississippi used his handgun to stop and detain an
armed killer until the police arrived. Dr. Piazza adds, "It
seems obvious that armed and trained staff members inside
the school are in a better position to identify the
attackers and do something immediately to resolve the
situation.  It is much harder for police, who arrive on the
scene too late to stop the killing."

Not so convinced is Sharon Piazza, Dr. Piazza's aunt who
recently retired after 30 years as an elementary teacher
and  school administrator for Oak Grove School District in
San Jose, California.  "The thought of teachers carrying
guns saddens me greatly.  I would feel that we had failed
as a society and missed the core reason why violence is
occurring in our youth.  It is not guns, but something much
deeper that is the common thread in all these tragedies. If
we must arm individuals in the school setting to protect
our children, I definitely believe they need to be trained
in when and how to use the weapon. However, I am definitely
not one who would want to be armed and would not want to
teach in that setting."

Lawmakers With Blood on Their Hands

Another obstacle to Front Sight's offer to train and arm
teachers is the current law in many states prohibiting the
possession of firearms on school grounds even when the
possessor is qualified and has a concealed weapons license.
Dr. Piazza quickly points out that those laws did not
prevent or stop the gun violence at numerous schools over
the last tens years. He states, "The brazen attacks in
school after school during the last decade indicate
criminals have concluded that 'Gun-Free-School-Zone' 
actually means 'Government Certified, Helpless and Unarmed
Victim Zone.'

Case in Point: House Bill 1572 would have given college
students and employees the right to carry a concealed
handgun on campus but this legislation was killed
in subcommittee by the General Assembly. Virginia Tech
spokesman Larry Hincker was happy at the time to hear the
bill had died. Hincker stated, "I'm sure the university
community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions
because this helps parents, students, faculty and visitors
to feel safe on our campus." Mr. Hincker now has rotten egg
on his face and the General Assembly has blood on their
hands. 

School administrators, law enforcement agencies,
and legislators can change laws and policies if they truly
want to stop these attacks. 

Senator Bob Beers of Nevada had the right answer by
introducing Senate Bill 286 which authorized teachers
who hold  permits to carry concealed firearms and who
have completed a specific program of firearms training
to carry concealed on schools grounds. Nevada lawmakers

shot
down Senator Beers' prophetic legislation just one week
before the Virginia Tech Massacre.

The voices of Dr. Ignatius Piazza and Senator Bob Beers
can now be heard through the halls of every school in
America as they scream, "How many more of our children must
be gunned down before this country will wake up and pass
sensible laws that protect our children by placing
concealed guns in the hands of the good guys? No more
free-fire-zones for deranged criminals!"

Schools Can't Afford to Pass on No Cost Security    
      
Most school districts cannot afford to have even one full
time police officer in every school, but they can easily
afford to train three or more of their selected staff
members to a higher level of firearms training than offered
in police academies because Front Sight will provide the
training at no cost."

Retired law enforcement firearms instructor, Mike Waidelich
from Bakersfield, California strongly supports the Front
Sight concept of arming and training teachers. "Nearly
every tragedy on or off school grounds in the entire 30
years of my law enforcement career could have been
prevented or the damage done considerably limited, by the
presence of an armed and trained individual."

Concealed Guns
         
The training provided in Front Sight's basic training
classes easily exceeds the training provided in most police
basic training academies.

Front Sight proves it on their nationally televised
reality series Front Sight Challenge shown every week
on VERSUS Network.  Seasoned law enforcement officers
from around the country go head-to-head in tests of
marksmanship, speed and tactics against private citizens--
including teachers-- who have not received any training
other than Front Sight's firearms courses.  Remarkably,
the Front Sight trained, private citizens are currently
leading the series 8 : 5.   

Piazza adds, "Teachers will be trained to carry a concealed
weapon, so potential attackers will not know which teachers
are armed and which are not.  In states that have adopted
concealed weapon laws for private citizens, violent crime
has dropped.  School attacks will drop as well once it is
known that any of the teachers and staff members on school
grounds have the ability and training to stop a violent
attack immediately."

Piazza explains that scientific research also supports
Front Sight's stance on concealed weapon training. He
references researcher, John Lott, Jr. from the University
of Chicago School of Law who published Crime, Deterrence
and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns in July 1996.  "Mr.
Lott's research of cross-sectional time-series data from
all 3054 U.S. counties from 1977 to 1992 found that
allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent
crime and appears to produce no increase in accidental
deaths.  If those states which did not have right-to-carry
concealed handgun provisions had adopted them in 1992,
approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, and over 60,000
aggravated assaults would have been avoided yearly."

Gun Control Increases Violent Crime
      
Piazza asks, "How many times must we experience another
Littleton, Colorado or Virginia Tech before we wake up,
study the research and adopt policies which actually reduce
crime and begin saving our children instead of leaving them
helpless victims when the next psych drug user snaps?"

Gun control typically increases violent crime yet some
politicians continue to tout disarming law abiding citizens
as a solution. Front Sight has a better solution. 

School districts interested in taking advantage of Front
Sight's commitment to help protect our children should
call us at 1.800.987.7719 or e-mail Front Sight at
info@frontsight.com.  More information about Front Sight
training is available at http://www.frontsight.com."

[SpeedPhreak]

Im at work & was only able to skim the article - to Front Sight

[SpeedPhreak]

Some more light at the end of the tunnel -  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18174900/

Schools need to teach students to be aggressive
Security analyst tells TODAY how schools should prepare for attacks
By Mike Celizic
TODAYshow.com contributor
TODAY
Updated: 10:05 a.m. MT April 18, 2007
Cowering under a desk and waiting for help to come is no longer an option. American schools must teach their students to respond aggressively to attacks by people bent on mayhem.

"I would hope that the administrators and folks that are making the decisions would understand that it's difficult to negotiate with a bullet," security consultant Allen Hill told TODAY. "A person that comes into your facility with a gun intends to kill and do you harm."

The founder of Response Options, a Texas-based security company, said, "Get past this paralysis of fear over liability issues. Our country is so litigious and concerned about doing the wrong thing and about doing the politically correct thing that we don't do anything."

That only helps people like Cho Seung Hui. "The bad guys are counting on Americans to sit still and do nothing," Hill said.

Students and others need to realize that they do have options, Hill said.

The "bad guys" plan their attacks. Schools need to plan and rehearse their defenses and responses just as aggressively.

"The training should be just as intense and be taken just as seriously as the bad guy takes their mission to kill," he said.

At Virginia Tech, Cho Seung Hui walked into classrooms and simply shot people. There are reports that he even lined up victims to shoot them one by one. But in one Norris Hall classroom, student Zach Petkewicz led his classmates in barricading the door, saving all inside.

Petkewicz' response was instinctive, prompted by "adrenaline and fear."

Hill's company teaches acting from knowledge and a well-rehearsed plan.

"Once the bad guy's inside, how hard is it to hit a non-moving target?" Hill observed.

"Get up and move," he advised. "Do whatever it takes to create chaos and mayhem. Disrupt them. Make them go into a protective mode themselves. We feel that we can become actively aggressive for our own benefit, whether that's actively running out of the classroom, having to face the gunman and take him down, breaking out windows and escaping that way."

You can't wait for something to happen and then try to form a response, he said. It's got to be done in advance.

Security systems are passive, he said. But those under attack can be active.

Said Hill: "There are things that you can do to take the initiative away from the bad guy, to disrupt their plan and to create a situation that's winnable for you."

[lildog]

Here's a link to some weird play this guy wrote.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html

Opie and Anthony actually acted it out on their radio show yesterday.

[Raineyrocks]

Here's a link to some weird play this guy wrote.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html

Opie and Anthony actually acted it out on their radio show yesterday.

Really?   Did you read his play?  I think it is so weird, don't you?  At first I thought maybe he was abused but as I read further I'm not sure, he just sounds like he had a major screw loose.

[MaineShark]

...he just sounds like he had a major screw loose.

Did he have any fully-tightened...?

Joe

[lildog]

Here's a link to some weird play this guy wrote.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html

Opie and Anthony actually acted it out on their radio show yesterday.

Really?   Did you read his play?  I think it is so weird, don't you?  At first I thought maybe he was abused but as I read further I'm not sure, he just sounds like he had a major screw loose.

Smoking Gun has it posted on their web site here:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html?link=rssfeed

[cyberdoo78]

Got one response out of seven from my school administration.

We could hire more police officers or have armed security guards in our schools.  I am not convinced that we need them, however.  I think we can continue to improve security through other, less expensive ways. 

Considering the training for 3 people from every school is free(a savings of $6000). The fact that Front Sight maintains a site here in Alaska that is but 3 hours drive or 30 min flight from where I live. What costs? Surely the costs of having 20-30 wrongful death law suits at $1.5 million each(minimum) would out weight the cost of paying for anyone who wants to in my district of some 50,000 students. Figure 50,000 students, 30 students per classroom, thats 1667 teachers. Times $4000($2000 plus costs of buying a new firearm and pay the teachers for the training time). $6.6 Million, seems like a bargain to me. But then again I use logic and not my emotions to think.

Personally, and I know someone out there will call me some name for pointing out the logic in this, I believe that these people who are dead, quite honestly brought it on themselves. My argument is that by standing by and doing nothing to protect themselves they are asking some mental patient prospect out there to shoot them. For if you don't defend yourself, no one else will apparently.

I also temper this with the Supreme court has said that no law enforcement officer has the legal responsibility to protect a single individual. If our law enforcement has no legal responsibility to protect us individually, then only ourselves alone have the responsibility to do so. So ask yourself, are you a victim or an responsible individual?

I meekly point out that I am a victim at the moment and am scraping up some dough to buy and take Front Sight training. Incidentally it only costs $3000 for a lifetime entry level membership, and they will take $49 a month for 72 months to pay for it. So is there really any reason someone shouldn't take it?

Oh yeah, you peaceniks out there, I forgot. Violence begets violence and such. Didn't seem to stop our founding fathers. I'm just teasing you guys. I respect you for holding your beliefs, I just wish others would hold theirs as sternly as you did, I think we would be better off. Oh, I and support you guys to hell and back, as you choose to do so.

[SpeedPhreak]

"there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, & that is the indifference of good men"

it may just be a line in a movie - but the message is profound.  when the general public will not stand up & fight threats, whether the threat is of direct violent nature (the VT situation) or more subtle (the ass raping of our country by the very people sworn to protect it) - then there is no hope.

[cathleeninnh]

Don is raising the issue at his workplace in MA that having unarmed "security" officers in the lobby is not a satisfactory plan.

Cathleen

[Dreepa]

unarmed "security" officers.

= Hall Monitor

[cyberdoo78]

unarmed "security" officers.

= Hall Monitor

"Let me see your hall pass please."

I'm thinking about doing a demonstration in front of my school district office building where they hold board meetings at the next meeting with signs that say, "[The District] Sez 'Kill our children please'" and maybe one showing a wolf holding  a fork and knife subtitled 'Killer' looking hungry at a sheep subtitled 'our children'. Maybe one other less provocative just saying 'allow teachers to serve & protect our children'.

Think its provocative enough? Any other ideas?