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"Let them march all they want, as long as they pay their taxes."  --Alexander Haig

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Author Topic: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A  (Read 7944 times)

Russell Kanning

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2007, 10:20 AM NHFT »

Took me a minute to get the bigger picture: Building a movement is like building a road. One brick, one plank at a time. The brick is not the whole road, but the road can't be built without it. No Russell, you are not "thick as a brick".  ;)
we have really cool building blocks here in The Shire
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Lloyd Danforth

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2007, 10:36 AM NHFT »

Then they got too cold and you had to stop ;D
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Tom Sawyer

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2007, 11:11 AM NHFT »

Man, that pic of the black folks getting sprayed down really makes me sick.

grrrrrr

Kola

A question I like to ask folks is "From looking at the picture who would you say won?"

On that day?

It created an image that was very powerful. The guy got wet and maybe knocked down, but he behaved like a free man.
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Lloyd Danforth

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2007, 11:43 AM NHFT »

Probably lost a kidney
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Russell Kanning

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2007, 01:37 PM NHFT »

I guess some people don't see that same reality.
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Lloyd Danforth

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2007, 05:18 PM NHFT »

Yes, probably due to their going thru life with their eyes glazed over
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srqrebel

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2007, 11:22 PM NHFT »

I think they call it a no win scenario for gov't.  If they leave the disobeyer alone, then he wins.  If they arrest him then it is easier for his supporters to rally support to their cause. 
A british official prior to the Indian independence put it like this-the protesters put the gov't in a position to abdicate, or resist the resisters. 

Or, Option C: They arrest the disobeyer, and no one except supporters cares. And in fact, the majority have been so conditioned to support the police and government that they actively oppose anyone who doesn't "just do what the police say!"

Witness the comments in the newspapers about Lauren and Russell, not to mention the Browns.


One has to wonder how many of those newspaper commentators were cops or friends/family members of cops.  I am certainly not convinced that the majority of folks are as you describe them, KB -- I would say more along the lines of afraid to disobey.  At least that is how folks in New Hampshire come across to me.  Those people are content for now to cheer on the Laurens and Russells silently -- while those whose dignity has been stepped on are most likely to speak out.

In Florida, on the other hand, people seem way more conditioned to obey without question, and more apathetic as well.

Every movement starts out small, and snowballs from there.  I signed the FSP Statement of Intent because I loved the idea, but I signed the First 1000 pledge and moved early because I kept reading about all the action, especially the cd, and wanted to be a part of it.
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Tom Sawyer

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2008, 09:59 AM NHFT »

Movie "Singing Revolution" about Estonian freedom movement

 :tiphat: to Taxinator for his post

Quote
Most people don’t think about singing when thinking about revolutions. But in Estonia song was the weapon of choice when, between 1987 and 1991, Estonians wanted to end decades of Soviet occupation.
cont.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 10:02 AM NHFT by Tom Sawyer »
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Tom Sawyer

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2008, 07:24 AM NHFT »

From Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky

Tactics mean doing what you can with what you have.

Tactics are those conscious deliberate acts by which human beings live with each other and deal with the world around them. In the world of give and take, tactics is the art of how to take and how to give. Here our concern is with the tactic of taking; how the Have-Nots can take power away from the Haves.

For an elementary illustration of tactics, take parts of your face as the point of reference; your eyes, your ears, and your nose. First the eyes; if you have organized a vast, mass-based people's organization, you can parade it visibly before the enemy and openly show your power. Second the ears; if your organization is small in numbers, then...conceal the members in the dark but raise a din and clamor that will make the listener believe that your organization numbers many more than it does. Third, the nose; if your organization is too tiny even for noise, stink up the place.

Always remember the first rule of power tactics: Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.

Second: Never go outside the experience of your people. When an action is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

Wherever possible go outside of the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.

The fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.

The fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule: Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

Sixth rule: A good tactic is one that your people enjoy. If your people are not having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.

A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time, after which it becomes a ritualistic commitment.

Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.

The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.

If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative.

The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. You cannot risk being trapped by the enemy in his suddenly agreeing with your demand and saying "You're right - we don't know what to do about this issue. Now you tell us."

Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

In conflict tactics there are certain rules that the organizer should always regard as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and "frozen." By this I mean that in a complex, interrelated, urban society, it becomes increasingly difficult to single out who is to blame for any particular evil. There is a constant, and somewhat legitimate, passing of the buck. The target is always trying to shift responsibility to get out of being the target.

One of the criteria in picking your target is the target's vulnerability - where do you have the power to start? Furthermore, the target can always say, "Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?" When you "freeze the target," you disregard these arguments and, for the moment, all others to blame.

Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all of the "others" come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target.

The other important point in the choosing of a target is that it must be a personification, not something general and abstract such as a community's segregated practices or a major corporation or City Hall. It is not possible to develop the necessary hostility against, say, City Hall, which after all is a concrete, physical, inanimate structure, or against a corporation, which has no soul or identity, or a public school administration, which again is an inanimate system.
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Kat Kanning

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2008, 08:01 AM NHFT »

Hillary Clinton loved that piece...it's like her bible or something.
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Tom Sawyer

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2008, 06:51 PM NHFT »

Yeah...
From Wikipedia
Quote
Alinsky was the subject of Hillary Rodham's senior honors thesis at Wellesley College, "There Is Only The Fight...": An Analysis of the Alinsky Model.[8] Rodham commented on Alinsky's "charm," but noted that “one of the primary problems of the Alinsky model is that the removal of Alinsky dramatically alters its composition." [8] Later, in her 2003 biography, "Living History" Clinton notes that although she agreed with some of his ideas, "particularly the value of empowering people to help themselves" they had a fundamental disagreement: "He believed you could change the system only from the outside. I didn't." [8] Once Hillary Rodham Clinton became First Lady of the United States, the thesis was suppressed by the White House for fear of being associated too closely with Alinsky's ideas.[9]

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armlaw

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2008, 07:30 PM NHFT »

The enforcers are partially paid through your registration.
In the Brown's case, it was more that the income tax has been thoroughly vetted. Most Americans would like to change it. Which is why we see several new formats 'flat'/'fair'. Personally, I would be more willing to return to tariffs, and a smaller federal mafia.


There are many who would agree with you, in returning to tariffs only as the ONLY means of funding the feds. This would put them back into the constitutional box of 1-8-17 where they belong and deprive them of using the fictional printing press currency to sucker in the sovereign states with federal funding contracts that require compelled performance, thus overriding the  prohibitions enumerated in the constitution. Yes, a return to the power of 4-4, and the sovereign Republics mandated therein. Now the question is: How can the restoration become manifest?
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Russell Kanning

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2008, 09:23 AM NHFT »

so .... what color scheme or motif would be good to represent our movement?

they went with orange in that romanian one or whatever right?
we have been using green for some things ... like backpack ribbons
the underground and paper use flames
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Tom Sawyer

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2008, 09:35 AM NHFT »

Black and gold is in the underground thingie I made.


Yellow and black is the Gasden flag.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2008, 09:41 AM NHFT »

hmmm

I do like your idea of being able to wear t-shirts or other clothing and being part of the revolution without having to have a sign.
I like the idea of not having to buy special clothing ... just anything will do the trick. John Connell uses plain clothes and them writes on them. :)
I also like the tree idea .... it is very Shire
remember one of the independence flags was red and white with a pine tree?
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