yawn

[Raineyrocks]

I just read somewhere that when you register your children that makes them state property or something like that.  Has anyone heard of something like that before?

http://www.thinkfree.ca/images/childorlife.pdf

(I think it's on the last couple pages)

If people are so willing to let the state of NH decide who can give their 12-year olds surgery without parental permission this is what they will get. Soon they will be requiring them to have implantable chips and other such horrors. British Columbia is already very socialistic as is most of Canada and very unfree.

Hi Jane! 

I found the word count thing and shortened that letter to the editor and resent it to a few newspapers so who knows, maybe it'll pop up sometime in some newspaper.  I really liked the entire content but most newspapers want letters to the editor to be 200 words or less. 

[CNHT]

Hi Jane! 

I found the word count thing and shortened that letter to the editor and resent it to a few newspapers so who knows, maybe it'll pop up sometime in some newspaper.  I really liked the entire content but most newspapers want letters to the editor to be 200 words or less. 

Yes I'd forgotten about that...but I'm glad you got it in. Even if they don't print it, you can keep writing. The last one I submitted to all the papers got into 3 of them.
I write at least one every 2 weeks.

[dalebert]

Once you have it [a SSN], you're stuck with it.  Sort of like herpes or something, I guess...

Good analogy!

[KBCraig]

What of my main point, that "violence begets violence"?

Of course it does. And someone who initiates violence against be is going to "be getting" a whole lot of violence in return.

Kevin

[CNHT]

If this law passes the state can collect taxes for a license for a civil union... And this makes you more free how?

I thought the idea of a marrage is that a two people agree to some shit... not that a two people agree to be recognized that they are together by the state.

And people are lining up to be enslaved by this?

How about this: Repeal ALL laws regarding marriage,  because it is none of the State's damn business. Only then will NH be the "freest state."

Because some people who call themselves libertarians are really no different than liberals who think they should be politically correct and vote for special rights for special groups... sometimes there is no other explanation. For example, how can you be for repeal of parental notification, but you mind having open cameras (which is not spying if you know they are there) on school buses so that if someone stabs your kid, who is supposed to be sitting there doing nothing for 20 minutes, you can see who did it? This is far less harmful than having the state determine it can take your kid, brainwash them, and then give them some sort of medical procedure and not even tell you about it.

[cyberdoo78]

I just read somewhere that when you register your children that makes them state property or something like that.  Has anyone heard of something like that before?

http://www.thinkfree.ca/images/childorlife.pdf

(I think it's on the last couple pages)

I do not believe that the legislation makes them state property. However in my search to learn, I have read that some people's interpretation of current laws already makes you and your child property.

Examine for a moment the concept of birth and death certificates. On the surface, their stated use is merely to define, for the government, when you are born and when you die. Both of these types of documents didn't exist prior to the civil war, or at the very least they weren't required, and if required were for the State government's purpose only.

After the civil war, a new class of citizen was created, that was the class of Federal Citizen. Prior to the 14th amendment, people were citizens of the various states. The state acted as a firewall between the people and the Federal government. The Federal Government's laws did not apply to the states citizen but to the states themselves. So it was after the 14th amendment, you were now both a citizen of the Federal Government, ie a US Citizen, and a citizen of the state.

It was after this that the Federal government needed to know who was and who wasn't a federal citizen. Citizenship applied only to those people who were not naturally born in the various states. Only then were you required to register with the federal government as a citizen. That soon changed things and the use of certificates of birth, death, and marriage became more popular as both the federal, state, and local governments needed them to comply with newly created laws.

It wasn't until 1998 that birth certificates became mandatory, to be filled out at the hospital personnel if needed.

Look at a birth certificate. What exactly is it? Based on the information I've read, its a document that creates a fictional person, like the Federal, State, and Local governments and corporations as well. It establishes that corporation "Mom" and corporation "Dad" created corporation "child". Further the information goes on to state this is seen in the court legal system as well. Addressing everyone in Capital letters, and not in their properly used punctuation. You have to identities the information goes on to say, one is the 'real' you, and the other is the 'fiction' you.

Which 'you' are you talking to? See this is part of what the Browns mean when they say, 'you are a fiction' when referring to news, government, etc. What difference does this make? Well, only living breathing things can be harmed by other living breathing things. Fictions can only harm other fictions. So you have two planes, one of fiction and one of reality, the two can not act on the same plane of existence. So the State can't bring charges against you if you break the law, they need a living breathing complainant, the police officer, the city lawyer, what ever.

So back to birth certificates. So if your birth certificate is what creates your fiction, then you are both a real person, and you are property of the US Federal government, by declaring yourself a US Citizen. Ergo on the claim of being a State Citizen. Ever wonder why you see that box, 'check here if a US Citizen', you are admitting you are a citizen, one who owes allegiance to another, and that is when you become both a free person and a person of fiction. Every time you use your SSN you are acting as your fiction. A SSN is tied to a fiction, not to a 'real' person. It all has to do with being subject to jurisdiction, federal, state, and local. If you don't claim it, they can't bring the law to bear on you.

Thats what the document I read said. Do I believe it, on a logical plane, perhaps. In reality, I wouldn't use it to try to defend myself in court with it. But then again, I'm a real person, not a fiction, and I am -not- a US citizen, nor a citizen of anything else for that matter, I am a sovereign, and owe allegiance to no one except my family, and am not property.

Kevin, why should the government believe that if it initiates violence, it should not get it back in return? If violence begets violence, then anyone who starts violence should automatically assume they will get it back in return. Makes me understand the thinking of police officers when they bust into a house. They are expecting violence because they know they are initiating it.

[Dreepa]

After the civil war, a new class of citizen was created, that was the class of Federal Citizen. Prior to the 14th amendment, people were citizens of the various states. The state acted as a firewall between the people and the Federal government. The Federal Government's laws did not apply to the states citizen but to the states themselves. So it was after the 14th amendment, you were now both a citizen of the Federal Government, ie a US Citizen, and a citizen of the state.

Not trying to pick a fight.... I have heard this dozens of times... is there anything I can read up on this topic?

[zackbass]

After the civil war, a new class of citizen was created, that was the class of Federal Citizen. Prior to the 14th amendment, people were citizens of the various states. The state acted as a firewall between the people and the Federal government. The Federal Government's laws did not apply to the states citizen but to the states themselves. So it was after the 14th amendment, you were now both a citizen of the Federal Government, ie a US Citizen, and a citizen of the state.

It was after this that the Federal government needed to know who was and who wasn't a federal citizen.

From Article Two, U.S. Constitution:
No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

That went into effect, what, around 1789?

[jaqeboy]

After the civil war, a new class of citizen was created, that was the class of Federal Citizen. Prior to the 14th amendment, people were citizens of the various states. The state acted as a firewall between the people and the Federal government. The Federal Government's laws did not apply to the states citizen but to the states themselves. So it was after the 14th amendment, you were now both a citizen of the Federal Government, ie a US Citizen, and a citizen of the state.

Not trying to pick a fight.... I have heard this dozens of times... is there anything I can read up on this topic?

L.B. Bork of Wisconsin is one of the leading proponents and educators in this belief system. His book, "The Red Amendment" explains the effect of the 14th Amendment.

LB's website: People's Awareness Coalition: http://pacinlaw.org/ - you can navigate through to the tutorials to get LB's take on things - there's a ton of stuff in there if you can figure out how to navigate around.

LB's blog: http://pacinlaw.blogspot.com/

State nationals (a site with the intent to help people return to their state national status): http://www.statenationals.net/

Available from other sources:
"The Red Amendment", by L.B. Bork - http://brockport.net/republicvsdemocracy/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=181

[cyberdoo78]

After the civil war, a new class of citizen was created, that was the class of Federal Citizen. Prior to the 14th amendment, people were citizens of the various states. The state acted as a firewall between the people and the Federal government. The Federal Government's laws did not apply to the states citizen but to the states themselves. So it was after the 14th amendment, you were now both a citizen of the Federal Government, ie a US Citizen, and a citizen of the state.

It was after this that the Federal government needed to know who was and who wasn't a federal citizen.

From Article Two, U.S. Constitution:
No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

That went into effect, what, around 1789?

Please note the difference between the case of Citizen of Art. 2 and the case of citizen of Amend. 14. One prescribes a proper noun, the other a common noun(I'm not a English professor so don't ask me to explain it). A natural born Citizen refers not to a Citizen born in the United States, but to a Citizen of the States. This is proven by also including or a Citizen of the United States, which means one who has been granted status as a Citizen through naturalization.

Check out this wording from the 14th amendment, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." This now claims that a new class called citizen, which is made up of all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and now are subject to its jurisdiction, are both citizens of the States AND of the United States. Prior to this, there were no Citizens of the United States except those naturalized, because they couldn't be Citizens of the State because they were not born there. This in effect created new class of people, citizen of the State of  X, and citizen of the United States. It added to the classes already, namely, Citizens of the State of X of which included only those naturally born there, and Citizens of the United States, those who were naturalized. Because it was never changed, these 4 classes exist to this day. It is possible to be part of one or more classes, however, each class has rights separate to each other.

A Citizen of the State is protected by the State and can and should ask the State for protection against the United States, even though they are also a citizen of the United States. So you are both a person, a Citizen of the State of X(born) or a Citizen of the United States(naturalized), and/or a citizen of the State of X(born or naturalized), or a citizen of the United States(born or naturalized).

Don't blame me, I didn't come up with this thinking, I've only read the damn thing. Do I believe its true? I believe that the 14th amendment did allow Federal laws to apply to the people of the various states, which prior to the 14th were not. Are you a citizen of the United States if born here, obviously yes, now. Can you revoke your citizenship? I believe so. I have yet figured out a way to do this. I've seen several people who have said this is how you do it, but do I believe it would work? I think it would, but that doesn't really matter if the Government can violate the laws it itself established.

Plan to take over the United States:
Step 1: Break every law you can and urge everyone you can to do the same.
Step 3: Take over the government.

Now we have to figure out what step 2 is.

To those who want to read what I read, check out www.worldnewsstand.net/www.weath4freedom.com(it isn't working for me at the moment, use the google cache feature to read the documents.) The other document I read was http://crosstheborder.org/ss-motb/toc.htm. This one is kinda preachy, which is okay if you are Christian(which I'm not) but even if you are not, its worth the reading. Just do a search with keywords like liberty, law, freedom and other similar words. You can find all kind of crazy things out there.

Believe what you want, it doesn't really matter what you believe, and I don't really care what you believe. I will tell you this, if you listen to anyone's beliefs, you ought to take the time to judge for yourself if it is true and not just discount it because its crazy.

1 million alien kidnap victims can't all be totally wrong. The universe this size can't be made just for one race of people on a small planet in a single solar system. Logic would dictate these two have some basis in fact. I'm not going to do the work for you, unless you want to pay me for it.