perhaps a silly question

[supperman15]

Alright, maybe there is something I?m just not getting about a specific form of protest, so I am embracing my ignorance and just asking the question. 
What is the point of hunger strikes.  I?m not trying to offend people, I realize Kat Kanning has been enduring a hunger strike because of her husbands arrest.  I just don?t see how starving yourself can change anything through it.  I was in class earlier this week and there was a girl wearing a shirt that said ?don?t feed the activist? and there was a website at the bottom that was too small to read.  I just kept thinking, what do I care about you not eating. 
I know throughout the world religions practice fasting for purification and penance and can understand self denial as a form of personal growth, (and I know that doesn?t work for me)  But for me activism is about activating others for a cause.
Can someone please clarify this form of activism for me???

thanks

[ninetales1234]

Alright, maybe there is something I?m just not getting about a specific form of protest, so I am embracing my ignorance and just asking the question. 
What is the point of hunger strikes.

It lets people know how serious they are about what they are advocating? Perhaps? I don't know.
There's got to be something more to it. If I wanted to let people know how serious I was, I'd put a lot of money and effort into the cause.

[penguins4me]

If the protestees have a conscience, it may give them pause if they learn that someone is essentially starving themselves to peacefully protest something said protestees are doing.

[Dave Ridley]

it seems not to have been that effective for any of us thus far. 

i suspect this means you would have to take it to the point where you are at risk of death, or have some kind of guaranteed wide media coverage of the fasting for it to have much effect.   

on the other hand maybe i'm missing something...it may have had an effect on jailers or bureaucrats, that I'm unaware of.

[dalebert]

I agree that it seems to be about showing that you're serious in order to draw attention to a cause. I think to be truly effective it needs to get media attention. It may be helpful with a bit of additional strategy to get the word out.

[cyberdoo78]

As most people may or may not know it, I'm not a big fan of non-violent protests because they have had very little to no effect in making change, as opposed to using the violent method of protesting.

I'd like to see the million gun march.....ooooo that could get messy. I digress.....

While I am 'pro-violence' or 'pro-self-defense'(depends on if your glass is half empty or full. Full, in case you were wondering.) I think that non-violence once practiced by the majority would have an effect like none seen before.

I see the footage of the 60's and say, ya know, that made changes. How fast did we get out of 'nam? I am at a loss of words(not really, its a phrase) when I see that footage(the words are, impressed, enthused, and excited).

I would be willing to lay down my arms in support of non-violent actions if the majority of others are willing to give up their comfort and their jobs and their life to make a change. Just as I would give up my life freely and willingly to know it made a difference.

I've been around here since the end of January, and I've seen alot. I've seen so much, I know this is where I want to be, this is where I belong. I'm not in New Hampshire yet, I'm in Alaska. I'm willing to stand up with Russell and follow him, non-violently, if some of you 'attaboys' and 'good jobs' will pledge to do so as well.

However to date, I've seen the photos of you radical types in front of this building or that building with signs and such, and thats great, but like a tree falling in a forest when no one else is around, no body sees you on the national scale. Of course I could be wrong, I don't watch the type of television that most brain dead people do. I like mystery, drama, and action(read Law and Order, CSI, and Star Trek. None of that 'Who wants to do stupid things on TV and -maybe- make some cash'). I listen to the news on the radio, Conservative of course, and browse the local paper, its liberal of course so I read everything and assume the opposite is actually happening.

Russell and Kat are doing something, I recognize that and I applaud that, and when I get to New Hampshire, I'll join that, non-violently if asked to. Now there are others on this board who feel like Kat and Russell do, but I ask them, why are you not in jail?

Thoreau said, "Under a government which imprisons any unjustly," he argued, "the true place for a just man is also a prison."

I say onto you, if you truly a just person, one who believes his cause is truly just, then sacrifice your comfort, sacrifice your property, and sacrifice your freedom onto the alter of liberty and stand up to those who you know to be wrong. Else you are not just, and you are just one of the sheep, and as a sheep, you shall go out to the field and do as the sheep do, be silent, eat the grass, and when the wolf comes for you, do nothing.

I am not a say'er, I am a do'er. I am not a follower, I am leader. I ask nothing of you that I myself wouldn't do. I have a son, and I have a wife, and I have commitments as you do. These are worthless if I allow what I believe to go unchallenged, to allow another man to unjustly trespass against me and my family, under the guise of 'We the People'.

The next time Russell goes to jail, go with him. I know nothing of Jesus except what is common knowledge, the same with Gandhi. I believe that both of these men would do exactly that, stand by a just man, unjustly accused of a crime. When he is led off back to the gallows to await his fate, follow him, if the guards try to stop you, press on(non-violently in this case).

If I were in Russell's shoes, that would make me feel as though I had support. I'm not saying I wouldn't appreciate all the well wishers, but let us be honest with ourselves, words have no meaning without action. Even Jesus in his last hours had company, true they were criminals, but at least some company is better then none. As Ben Franklin said, "We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."

I would like to apologize in advance for insulting people. I'm tactless, and speak from the heart. Sometime we don't want people to tell us that we have a zit on our forehead even if you'd have to be blind not to see it. Maybe Russell doesn't want this, I'll let him speak for himself. I only make statements that are true for me. Any references I make about other people are from my prospective reality, which is admittedly colored by virtuous ideals.

[error]

If you're a leader, the followers will come. No need to berate them.

As for spending your days in prison for unjust causes, someone has to remain on the outside to inform the world. And even if they don't listen, we've found that we have just enough people to make just enough noise to keep the bureaucrats away from people like Russell and Lauren, at least when they directly confront them. The more the merrier!

And don't worry about the national media. They'll get it.

[Tom Sawyer]

I read opinions of people written from a far trying to determine if 10 people holding signs makes a difference. "Cause we would have to have millions to really effect anything".

You have to see and hear first hand accounts of the effect of even just one persons actions.

Dada Orwell doing that one man silent protest thing had a strong effect at the jail Russell was held at. It freaked them out...

A dozen people not standing up for the judge had a strong influence. The court personnel in three instances I personally witness this happen I am sure had never seen it before.

I'm not interested in "selling" anyone on the idea of Nonviolent Action... I'm just saying it is a matter of sitting around and fantasizing about something verses actually doing something... this is the difference that is most immediately apparent.

This is just the beginning folks wait until they have dozens of Dada's, Lauren's, Russell's and the many other unsung heroes that will come to the aid of their friends and fellow activists. It doesn't even take the kind of courage it takes to willing go to jail or not eat etc.

The phone calls, letters written, signs held etc. all contribute to the end working out better. Helps build trust and faith that people will help stand up for each other.  And just as importantly these efforts show the rest of the freedom movement something is happening in New Hampshire.

[cyberdoo78]

I wasn't berating anyone. I was calling them to action. I was influencing them. I was trying to motivate them. There will always be people on the outside, no need to worry about them not being there. There will always be someone who believes in the cause but refuses to make a sacrifice apon the alter of liberty. These people will be the supporters who support the cause but choose to limit their level of involvement because they don't want to do anything worth getting arrested for, worth going to jail for, or worth dying for.

Recall for a moment, that the Constitution of the United States wasn't initially written by 'We the People', it was written by a few. It took 10 years to fully ratify the Constitution. It was these few men that risked their life, for if they were found out they would have been surely hung. However there were hundreds of supporters that believed the Constitution was the right way to go, however they didn't want to risk their life, or their comfort for a just cause.

Imagine living your life wondering if at any moment the police will come crashing down your door and haul you away(I believe alot of people actually already do. I know I do). That is what this liberty revolution is about, to take back what is rightfully ours. To take back the liberty given to us by our fathers and their fathers and so forth. To educate the masses who have been dumb downed by Public Indoctrination. Who's apathy like some of our own is to continue to be slaves to the servants and not to claim our rightful place as masters of our government.

I do not insult anyone. If you are fat and I point it out, is that an insult? I am simply stating facts and I understand them. If you choose not to fully participate, thats fine with me, but don't expect this revolution to be quick and painless without your help.

If the 400+ who belong to the FSP and who are in New Hampshire right now were to all to stand in front of the doors into the legislature building in Concord and chain themselves there and refuse to move, do you think the government could really move them? Let alone arrest and house all of them? I think not. Is this not the purpose of the FSP to make change?

Just moving to New Hampshire to reap the benefits of what the few are doing is not enough. You must stand with your brothers and your sisters and join together and in one voice speak as one.

But like all people it would seem, we are smart as individuals but as a group, lacking of intelligence. I don't say that as an insult, but as a statement of the facts as I see them. I admit to the existence of the possibility of being wrong.

The national media don't care what one person does, unless it kills or hurts someone. Refusing to pay a traffic ticket isn't news worthy, nor is going to jail, or being in jail for 21 days. Now, two people doing that, is interesting. 10 would start to catch attention. 25 would make regional news, and 50 would make national news. But there is only one right now. When I get there, it will be two.

Hopefully it will be more, but we will see.

[error]

You can be sure the local media, and even many of the statewide and regional media, are aware of every move Russell makes.

The purpose of the FSP is not to make change; it's to get PEOPLE here who will THEN make change. Think of the FSP as a

And the people here are all individuals. Getting every one to do exactly the same thing at exactly the same time is impossible, as it is with any collection of individuals.

But you can be sure that every one is doing SOMETHING, even if you don't see it. There's plenty of work to be done behind the scenes. I should know; I'm doing some of it. Behind the scenes has always been where I work most effectively.

[d_goddard]

The purpose of the FSP is not to make change; it's to get PEOPLE here who will THEN make change.
...
But you can be sure that every one is doing SOMETHING, even if you don't see it. There's plenty of work to be done

Bingo!

Find the group(s) doing the "thing(s)" you think are the best.
Hook up with them, and start DOING.

See nothing you like? Start a new group.

Remember to have fun!!!

[dalebert]

The point is to reach people. I'm not sure that more people getting arrested works better than lots of people boldly bringing attention to it when someone is unjustly arrested. We can all do little things to awaken the sheeple. One of my plans for spreading a contagious idea is through my writing. Sounds like you're questioning methods. That's fine. You're welcome to share your opinion about the best methods but I don't agree that everyone getting arrested is going to be the best method for achieving our goals.

[error]

There's no one best method. And if you limit the whole movement to one method, it's going to fail. In order to succeed, statism must come under constant pressure from all sides.

[supperman15]

i was reading a book about Augusto Boal who is a theatre guy that i want to base my group off of up there and they were looking at protests from a dramaturgical standpoint.  They posed a theory that the million man form has becaome outdated and lost its inpact and that for social change activims has to continuously get reinvented because part of what gets the atention is the shock value... perhaps the anti war human bbq should read the book too.  I guess i agree that we should keep evolving the weel on this front.

[cyberdoo78]

You are absolutely correct on the purpose of the FSP. I was using the numbers as a reference point for my example. I understand the purpose of the FSP and know exactly what it is for.

I question no one's methods. That's why I firmly believe that both the non-violent method and the violent method are the vehicle toward change. Obviously one method maybe more effective then the other.

We take the Browns example that, promising violence against violent people keeps you in the media. With this method you can be a demonstrator of one and be effective.

Taking the Russell example, non-violence requires a bit more people all doing the same thing to get more media attention, or at least alot of people doing similar things.

The million man marches haven't been all that successful because more do not reach their goal of one million people. I'd suggest that people wear shirts, bibs, name tags, et al, with their participant number on it. That way you could really say 'we had X amount of people in this march today.'

Of course I wouldn't hype it as a million man march. I would instead bring attention to who we are, rather then our number. Think about all the marches, how many can you remember the name of? I remember the number and not the name.

The wheel needs to keep evolving because what works today, may not work tomorrow. Its easy to change your attack plan against an enemy after you have seen his tactics. While our enemy is large and slothful he will eventually cover his broadside. I don't mean enemy in the classical sense of the word, more of a tag then anything else.